| Windows Longhorn to be 3D GUI |
| April 16, 2002, 8:14 PM CST by chairmansteve | Supposedly at WinHEC, word is that Windows Longhorn's graphics interface will be built from the bottom all on DirectX 9.0. Such talks have been going on about future Windows using 3D GPU for at least 2 years now, so it's about time it becomes a reality.
What sort of new features and benefits think will come with that?
Will this open more opportunities for the PC 3D GPU market too? Maybe a 5 or 6 way war among graphics chipmakers?
A worthy edition to Windows? Something actually worth upgrading to?
According to the WinHEC 2002 agenda (http://www.microsoft.com/winhec/agenda_full2002.asp), the following are to be covered on Thursday April 18 (2 days from now):
- Windows Graphic Architecture: A New Platform and New Requirements
- Windows Graphic Architecture: Windows "Longhorn" Graphics Infrastructure and Text Rendering
- Windows Graphic Architecture: DirectX Graphics Video Rendering
- Windows Graphic Architecture: Color and GDI+ 2.0
So, more info on this may be around the web in a few days. |
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| April 16, 2002, 8:40 PM CST by Pichu | | is this what debutted as Whistler 2.0? Then it will be good for an upgrade. Whistler 1.0 (Windows XP) is completely useless to be purchased if you already own Windows 2000. I guess you would require a post-millennium graphics card to be able to render these 3D Windows properly. yah! |
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| April 16, 2002, 9:15 PM CST by chairmansteve | | Whistler 2.0? Maybe. Windows Blackcomb and Longhorn are the codenames for next Windows versions. Not sure which one comes first. I think Blackcomb is the one with database filesystem and is aimed mainly at .NET stuff ("the real .NET" OS, so maybe Longhorn is before Blackcomb). |
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| April 16, 2002, 9:21 PM CST by CriTioN | | Don't mean to change the subject, but do you know what .Net is? Heard some stuff about .Net and it's nothing like with I thought it was. |
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| April 16, 2002, 9:31 PM CST by khaid | | Holy crap. I don't know where they plan to go with this but I can see a very pretty gui coming along. |
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| April 16, 2002, 9:32 PM CST by chairmansteve | CriTioN, if you ask MS, this is what you'd get:
What is .NET?
Microsoft® .NET is a set of Microsoft software technologies for connecting your world of information, people, systems, and devices. It enables an unprecedented level of software integration through the use of XML Web services: small, discrete, building-block applications that connect to each other—as well as to other, larger applications—via the Internet. .NET connected software delivers what developers need to create XML Web services and stitch them together. The benefit to individuals is seamless, compelling experiences with information sharing.
http://www.microsoft.com/net/defined/
Seems to be about integration with the Internet. |
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| April 16, 2002, 10:16 PM CST by cd36 | | so if it has a DX9 GUI you'll have the high end R300 and NV30 GPU's only able to render the GUI........so after shelling out 200 bucks for it you'll have to pay 500-700 for a video card to see it....... |
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| April 16, 2002, 10:33 PM CST by CriTioN | Yep, it's supposed to be a new programming standard for the business side of the internet. There was an interview, on TechTV, with David Simmons, who is helping Microsoft with .Net.
Here's Mr. Simmons site or company site: http://www.smallscript.net/
And here is TechTV's .Net stuff: http://www.techtv.com/screensavers/answerstips/story/0,24330,2205147,00.html
Back to 3D GUI...What would be really sweet is if you have a picture of a tree in an open field as the desktop background and every now any then a bird passes by or the wind blows, which makes the branches and leaves on the tree move. That would require some power, but it'd be cool! |
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| April 17, 2002, 5:52 AM CST by Chipaku | geez, I can just see all the .net apps that fail with todays erratic internet connections.
"the drive or network connection xxx.dll is not available, so reboot your computer, b*tch" |
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| April 17, 2002, 6:50 AM CST by Pichu | So is Whistler as a codename, but a while ago, I heard that Whistler 2.0 is going to change (Windows 6.0?) dramatically comparing to all the Windows
Windows .NET is debutted to release very soon in the vicinity of next year. I haven't heard anything about 3D GUI, so it might be a little bit later, perhaps it will be a good integration to Windows XP in the release of Windows XP 2.0. |
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| May 26, 2002, 1:44 AM CST by Gman | | Is it going to be a whole new operating system,or is it just going to be sum sort of xp expansion pack?But why release sumthing new right after Winxp.PPl went through hell trying to upgrade from win95 to xp.Now Longhorn.I dont think so. |
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| May 26, 2002, 1:49 AM CST by chairmansteve to Gman | 1) It's the codename for next major version of Windows.
2) It's to be out late 2003 or sometime 2004. Who said it's right after XP? |
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| May 26, 2002, 1:55 AM CST by Gman to chairmansteve | | O i thought it was coming out next year,i guess not.Thankx for the info.O 1 more thing,Do you or could you estimate the pc specs to run Longhorn? |
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| May 26, 2002, 1:59 AM CST by chairmansteve to Gman | I'll tell you the specs when Longhorn is released. I'd say it'll need something to handle DX9 graphics and multithreaded graphics (multiple windows) to run well.
2003 is next year. |
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| May 26, 2002, 2:18 AM CST by Pichu to chairmansteve | | how about MT processors (Hyperthreading, Athlon64/Opteron, Dual/MultiCPU)? Is that required? What's a MT graphics anyways? What if my graphics card doesn't support all the functions in DirectX9 and I purchased Longhorn, will Microsoft gives me a moneyback refund just because my system isn't compatible? |
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| May 26, 2002, 2:23 AM CST by chairmansteve to Pichu | Well, I said "to run well" since it could probably work without the hardware features too. MT graphics in hardware would be a GPU that can render several applications using multiple threads on GPU. 3Dlabs P10 suppposedly has this feature.
MT and MP processing as requirement? Nah. But surely they'll be supported. |
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| June 24, 2002, 4:32 AM CST by kenneth9265 | | Any words to when Windows Longhorn is due to come out? |
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| March 11, 2003, 10:42 PM CST by CriTioN | Found this yesterday, not sure if anyone has seen it or not. Has some good info about early versions of Longhorn.
http://www.winsupersite.com/faq/longhorn.asp
Previews of product:
http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/longhorn_alpha.asp
http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/longhorn_4008.asp |
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| March 11, 2003, 11:57 PM CST by Pichu to CriTioN | | Yep, I installed Longhorn Build 4008 (Alpha Leaked)... It has no 3D GUI at all!!! It just more garbage added to Windows XP, making it even more obfuscated to customers, specifically me!!! I hate it so much! nVidia detonator drivers, again, can't even be installed properly in this OS - that is, no 3D... |
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| March 12, 2003, 12:46 AM CST by CriTioN to Pichu | | Did it really install in 20 minutes or less? So you running it on a different PC or multi boot system? |
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| March 12, 2003, 1:04 AM CST by Pichu to CriTioN | I don't know about the timing to install, but it's quick as it's done automatically after prompting the CDkey. I left the machine for half an hour after it's starting to install. Well, since it's automatic, I can't choose to upgrade, freshly install, or overwrite my Windows XP. Then, my Windows XP's directory got renamed to C:\WINDOWS.000 from C:\WINDOWS and Longhorn got installed to C:\WINDOWS... Then, all previously installed applications aren't even registered so that I have to reinstall them. It's not upgrading nor is it deleting my old OS. What the heck is this thing???
However, it takes three times longer to boot up into Longhorn than XP; I bet the review didn't mention any downfalls of this OS!!! |
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| March 12, 2003, 1:20 AM CST by CriTioN to Pichu | | Yea, the dude did say right now it's a work in progress. I don't like the idea of it taking over your whole PC. You have all your applications on another drive? Will it let you install XP to create a duel boot system? |
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| March 12, 2003, 1:25 AM CST by Pichu to CriTioN | I don't know... it should have prompted me to install in which dir, just like Windows XP, but it just prompt me to install on which partition. The only thing I did is press F6 for further options (to install RAID drivers, which I didn't bother with it).
That's one 60GB drive. I decided to install Longhorn just today because I just formatted the drive yesterday, so I didn't really have any significant loss. |
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| May 8, 2003, 2:10 PM CST by chairmansteve | DX9 GPU will be required for full functions of Windows Longhorn GUI.
Here is translations from Japanese article:
To use full function, the DirectX9 class GPU to necessarily
In order to use all functions of such Longhorn UI, the DirectX9 class GPU becomes necessary. But, at the time of Longhorn appearance of 2005 years is, and others, it is not the case that all PC have loaded the DirectX9 class GPU. Because of that, the Microsoft offers phased UI function to the Longhorn. They are 2 stages of the " Tier 1 Experience " and the " Tier 2 Experience ".
As for the Tier 1 Experience, BASIC of the Longhorn UI it is the mode which offers function. Windows XP like in the desktop, it becomes something which adds the function such as high DPI scaling and the semi- transmitted window. The picture of the demonstration which has been introduced in this report seems that basically this Tier 1 suitable function is center.
" The Graphically stunning UI (the graphically splendid UI)" it designates the Tier 2 Experience, as the base vis-a-vis that. At present point in time, you do not know yet whether this, it becomes some contents.
In addition, these other things, also the UI of the " Windows 2000 compatibility mode " is prepared in the Longhorn.
So really in the Longhorn UI some GPU being necessary? Basic required environment becomes like under. Lowest being, DirectX7 class, to use the true UI of the Longhorn, DirectX9 class becomes necessary.
http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2003/0509/kaigai01.htm
Check out the screens and MPEG movies of what Longhorn can do.
Star Wars DVD Movie as Animated Texture:
http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2003/0509/k1_6.htm
Calculator with Increased DPI for the Window:
http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2003/0509/k1_2.jpg# |
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| May 8, 2003, 2:20 PM CST by Quaid to chairmansteve | | So when you get a virus or some kind of error, will big pac-mans come up and gobble the screen? |
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| May 8, 2003, 2:30 PM CST by chairmansteve to Quaid | | Yes! Finally we will have those awesome special effects on computers that we've seen so long in "hi-tech" movies! |
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| May 8, 2003, 3:24 PM CST by G3M1N1 to chairmansteve | I want a "Minority Report" GUI.
baby steps....baby steps... |
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| May 11, 2003, 10:45 PM CST by chairmansteve | "Tier 2" for Longhorn got some high requirements. Tier 2 is the full-features GUI mode.
The Minimum Requirements
- Stable Longhorn Graphics Driver
- GPU Scheduling (multiple clients are guaranteed)
- GPU Memory Management (video memory always available)
- Hardware V-Sync Interrupt
- Pixel Shader 2.0 (DX9-class GPU)
- 4x FSAA
- Bump & Environment Mapping with Luminance
- Hardware Transformation & Lighting
- 1024x768 with 32-bit color
- 64MB Video Memory (128MB recommended)
- AGP 8x or PCI Express
Some steep requirements for Windows GUI, yes? I think it's great. It'll force GPU manufacturers to produce more solid graphics processor and drivers. That'll raise the bar on low-end systems and increase the number of 3D Gaming Capable PCs.
"Tier 1" only needs DX7-class features, and "Windows 2000 compatibility mode" won't need any 3D GPU -- just like current Windows.
But for Tier 2...1024x768x32 with 4x FSAA is the minimum requirement! Excellent! |
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| May 11, 2003, 10:49 PM CST by Pichu to chairmansteve | | Where did you get this information from? If this is only Tier 2 (considering it's second rated, some features may be removed), what will be the Tier 1 requirement. |
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| May 11, 2003, 10:54 PM CST by chairmansteve to Pichu | | Tier 2 is the full-features mode. Tier 1 has features removed. I got info from slides that were presented by Microsoft at WinHEC. |
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| May 12, 2003, 1:26 AM CST by kenneth9265 to chairmansteve | | Man Steve, pretty soon, 500MHz CPU, 64MB Ram, with a GF2 MX400 64MB card will no longer be useful. Gone the way of the 386's. LOL (That was a top of the line tech in 98/99) |
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| May 23, 2003, 5:57 PM CST by Waterboy | Longhorn GUI in action:
http://www.winsupersite.com/images/showcase/longhorn_winhec_06.png
http://www.winsupersite.com/images/showcase/longhorn_winhec_10.png
http://www.winsupersite.com/images/showcase/longhorn_winhec_12.png
http://www.winsupersite.com/images/showcase/longhorn_winhec_04.png
http://www.winsupersite.com/images/showcase/longhorn_winhec_05.png
Notice that the CPU is idle. All effects are done on the GPU.
Found it here: http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/longhorn_preview_2003.asp
The article also contains some details of how the GUI works. There will also be a new theme called Aero that will replace the current Plex theme in Longhorn Alpha builds. |
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| June 3, 2003, 5:24 PM CST by kenneth9265 | | What is gong to happen to older PCs? Is that going to Windows 95/98? Is they still support the older OSs? And for how long? |
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| June 3, 2003, 6:53 PM CST by Pichu to Waterboy | | which build is it? i think the latest is like build 4100+? I have Build 4015, never installed. |
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| June 5, 2003, 9:51 AM CST by Waterboy to Pichu | It's a special internal build that still hasn't been leaked.
Info on build 4015 here: http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/longhorn_4015.asp |
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| June 5, 2003, 10:07 AM CST by pjbliverpool to kenneth9265 | | I know there is a DX7 mode so you will be alright with a GF2 or above. |
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| June 5, 2003, 10:09 AM CST by one_grim_reaper | | Why have i got an image in my head of microsoft sitting down at a table with nVidia and ATI and saying.. 'if we build an OS that requires a really powerful GPU to be used fully... you guys will sell more... but we want so many % of the profit'??? |
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| June 6, 2003, 12:18 AM CST by kenneth9265 to one_grim_reaper | | I didn't know you was at the meeting too grim! LOL! |
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