| Halo 2 vs. Half Life 2 & Doom3 |
| July 27, 2003, 10:38 PM CST by lyncher | halo2 should no doubt deliver 2wice as much an experiance as hl2 and doom 3 could halo 2 kick so much royal ass that hl2's physics arnt good enough and doom 3's badass mutants aint detailed enough? with all the unanswered Q. in halo there must be some sweet shit to come ..... ok really this post is to get xbox fangirl to fight xbox fanboy
so go |
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| July 27, 2003, 11:12 PM CST by BoogieKnight | | lyncher, I know for a fact you haven't played half-life once or a doom game. Personaly, I think half-life2's physics are definetly better than halo 2s, realistic physics are always more fun than arcade physics. As for doom 3, well, i have no love for that game. :P |
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| July 27, 2003, 11:30 PM CST by lyncher | | but serious when it comes down to it bungie game will kill anything besides i dont know any other game that offers such a damn good offline multi player experiece other then halo so in theary halo 2 will be even better..... anyways what does hl2 have?? i have still seen nothing very out standing sure the AI is great but halo 2 is also and the physicas engine is awesome aloso but halo 2s also takes in account for the vehicals ,,,, more importatly when it come down to it is it funner to hit an alien in the face or is it funner to combo whack a grunt untill he screams die devil?? problem solved halo 2 will esily be a better game then hl2 and doom 3 and beside do we really want to rely on judging an xbox exclusive to a port? hf2 on xbox will not be as good on pc dont give me shit that it will if they messed up sof2 that bad i really dont want to see a port of hf2 for its own sake |
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| July 27, 2003, 11:45 PM CST by khaid to lyncher | Half-Life 2 is one of the most anticipated games. It kind of blew away Halo 2 at this year's E3.
What is this excellent physics engine you keep talking about in Halo 2? Did you even watch any of Half-Life 2's videos? It makes Halo 2's physics look non-existant.
Half-Life 2 and Doom III are PC games. Why would you make offline MP in that?
Doom III visuals vs. Halo 2? heheheh.
Halo 2 will be an excellent game but please do not come up with ridiculous claims. |
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| July 28, 2003, 12:00 AM CST by lyncher to khaid | | the shear fact that hl2 was a suprise at e3 have it the edge over halo 2 halo 2 was around awile and yes i have seen hl2s movies and all i see is jaggies and still most ppl dont have live and dont play online so i want to get to the more offline experiance but ya online will still be superior but i dont have a good conection so its useless halo 2 has what we call a good story that will suck u in hl2 and doom 3s are old stories. the fact that there are so many options at your disposal to kill grunts wiht is diablical run-en-gun or drive-em-over well now shoot them also letting a marine drive will be cool i hope if only halo 2 had multi player bots that would rock |
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| July 28, 2003, 12:05 AM CST by lyncher to khaid | | also with more on the physics part in hl2 the physica are cool and insain but serious the whole story make no sense in the demo movie on win the guy has a anti graz gun the next hes stone age man with a crow bar sounds real huh.? but i really shouldnt critisize anything of hl2 cuz it is a good game but still halo and its non linear feel will take the edge over hl2 and please be aware im basing my reasons on the ports of hl2 not the pc version cuz ports are almost always bad sorry had to say it better stop mindlessly bashing hl2 before some really tells me off |
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| July 28, 2003, 1:45 AM CST by ImMoRTaL | Halo 2 will not compare to Doom III, or Half Life 2 visually.
HL2 and Doom 3 will be running on far superior hardware(PC) than Halo 2(Xbox). This power has been taken advantage of in HL2, and Doom 3. I have seen many, and probably most of the HL2 videos that have been released. I have played Doom 3, and have seen a 9 minute gameplay clip from Halo 2. I can tell you that Halo 2 has nothing on HL2 and Doom 3 graphically.
Oh ya you're saying there are jaggies in HL2? hehe. So you are saying a game that can be run at 1024x1240( game can be played at even higher res if you "think" you can see jaggies), with 4-6x FSAA, has more jaggies than a game played at 640x480, with minimal FSAA?lol, dream on... |
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| July 28, 2003, 4:12 AM CST by chairmansteve | Here are the official rankings.
Graphics Quality of the Games
1) Doom 3
2) Half Life 2
3) Halo 2
Writing Quality of the Fans
1) Doom 3
2) Half Life 2
3) Halo 2
'Tis interesting. Could graphics of the game and writing (spelling, grammar, coherence, etc.) of the fans be directly related? |
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| July 28, 2003, 4:47 AM CST by pjbliverpool to lyncher | hehe, you are living in a dreamworld my friend. Graphics wise, Halo2 dies a horrible death in the face of Doom3 and HL2. Why do you think all the xbox fanboy hype about Halo2's graphics suddenly dissapeared after E3? Its because it compared very badly to both Doom 3 and HL2. In fact you are the first person I have heard since E3 that has had much to say about the graphics of Halo 2. Hype about the graphics of Doom 3 and HL2 on the other hand is everywhere.
You obviously havn't seen much of the HL2 videos because if you had, you would have known that HL2 also makes use of vehicles and what we have seen so far had very few jaggies.
Gameplay wise, who can say which will be better, but I think that based on precident, its reasonable to assume that both Doom 3 and HL2 will be at least the equal of Halo2 in their own way since both where bigger and better games than the original Halo in their day.
But seriously, the physics in D3 and HL2 really do have a good laugh at those in Halo 2. |
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| July 28, 2003, 5:31 AM CST by embargiel to pjbliverpool | | Halo 2's graphics' hype is not dead yet. It's even bigger than what it was before E3 (as the fact that it was at E3 that the first in-game scene was shown). Anyway, I do agree with you about the graphics, Doom 3 and Half Life 2's are simply better than Halo 2's. In Physics, Half Life 2 is simply the best (don't know about how Doom 3 fares with Halo 2). |
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| July 28, 2003, 5:36 AM CST by pjbliverpool to embargiel | Im talking mainly about the hype in here and a couple of other forums I go too. Before the video's where released, you couldn't enter an xbox thread without some fanboy saying how the graphics in Halo 2 where going to destroy anything the pc had to offer.
Since we have actually seen the graphics at E3, that seems to have completely disapeared. (Aside from the visually challenged guy who started this thread). |
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| July 28, 2003, 5:38 AM CST by embargiel to pjbliverpool | | If you were talking about people in this thread, then, yeah, you're right. Most people here are sensible (esp. Steve). But if you go into one of the major Xbox sites (like teamxbox.com), most of them even still believe that Halo 2's graphics and everything to be superior than any games out there (yeah, even STALKER!). |
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| July 28, 2003, 5:43 AM CST by pjbliverpool to embargiel | | hehe, i may have to pay those threads a visit and dash some hopes! A few well chosen screenshots should suffice. |
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| July 28, 2003, 1:29 PM CST by pvcHH | I can't believe you people are debating this.
Let's argue over vaporware!
And obviously the person who started this thread was just looking for a flamewar. Why take the bait? |
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| July 28, 2003, 6:32 PM CST by lyncher to pvcHH | | yes i am lol as its really funny flame wars. yes i do understand that halo 2s graphics are inferior, BUT graphics are not everything. game play and mechanics are. halo had the best in the day and halo 2 will offer suffice visuals. really halo 2 will have a good story line. seeing as hl2 and d3 are old.. ok they all shoot aliens but halo 2 has some twists and turns. dont make be go back to whats better in whacking or hitting with crow bars. anyways far cry will prolly take the cake since its the under- rated fps that offers the exacted and even more of the same qualities. |
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| July 28, 2003, 6:36 PM CST by lyncher to lyncher | | also may i remind you we are comparing halo 2 to the xbox versions of hl2 and d3 u all seemed to miss that point earlier. besides halo 2 will prolly sell to 90% of xbox owners and those 90% will defend her for me.. also any of u guys ever actually do some wart hog jumping? no if halo 2 will allow this nothing wil beat it |
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| July 28, 2003, 6:48 PM CST by khaid to lyncher | Eh? So an old story is inferior? I don't see how making a sequel to something old will make it inferior.
Have you played Half-Life? Do you know what the story is about? Or are you making assumptions here?
Also, I don't see how warthog jumping will effect the gameplay. |
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| July 28, 2003, 7:00 PM CST by lyncher to khaid | | i kind of am making assumptions there, but at least i addmit it. all the elements that made halo last so long will be in halo 2 yes at least i hope, i dont think hl the acctuale game(no cs) was that pop and doom were as pop as they were after 3 years of being out. hl2 wont be as interesting 3 years afeter its realeased as halo 2 will be, and doom 3 sure wont seeing as its so linear |
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| July 28, 2003, 7:43 PM CST by cmdrmonkey to lyncher | Half-Life has had one of the longest lives (in terms of popularity) of any video game. I have gone back and played it (the single play) many times, and still do, and the game is from 1998. It is a timeless classic, and its modability has kept its multiplayer alive with CS and Firearms. Most people who actually know something about gaming would say this is the best game ever made. Doom is equally timeless. It has even been re-released for the GBA. The original Halo was Undoubtedly a good FPS, but it was nothing spectacular or revolutionary in its time.
Doom 3 and Half-Life 2 will not be linear, but Halo 2 might be; especially considering the original Halo was essentially a rail shooter with alot of endless, repetitive indoor environments, and it sequel will be set on earth (so expect to spend alot more time indoors). Not to mention the hardware on the xbox doesnt hold a candle to that of a recently built PC...so i'm not expecting as much out of the graphics. I suspect Half-Life 2 will be as popular with the mod community as the original, so its popularity will probably last as long as that of the original Half-Life. You cant mod anything on an Xbox, which is why the multiplayer in the original Halo eventually becomes boring and tiresome with more extensive play. Dont forget that HL2 and Doom 3 will be coming out quite awhile before Halo 2. |
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| July 28, 2003, 7:59 PM CST by extremegamer to lyncher | | dude your gonna get ate up trying to put halo2 at the top of upcoming fps.sure halo2 is gonna rock,but take it for what it is"a great game for the xbox"and a good game (fps)wise.i have all platforms and i can tell you im looking forward to doom3 and farcry because they just seem of better quality.but it wont stop me from getting halo2 because i wanna play all 4(hl2,doom3,halo2,and farcry)so be happy buddy its a good time for pc and xbox period! |
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| July 28, 2003, 10:45 PM CST by lyncher to cmdrmonkey | | yes halo did get kind of repetive but still never to the point where it sucked halo 2 will take place on earth and on another halo ring and supposadly the moon. driving the moon buggy wart hog will be timeless and to speak of halo 2 physics its said that on the moon level u will jumpo higher and when u shoot down the shots will actually decreas your falling speed. pretty cool huh but im sure hl2 will have something like this. anyone who has gotten to the point that thay think halo 2 can t hold its own against any new fps is crazy from what it seems the ppl who dont have a super pc will like the console games because hl2 and doom3 will run like shit on their pc like mine so i do belive halo 2 will benifit from this ..... if halo 2 would ever have the modibilty that hl2 has it would trounce hl2 easily the only reason cs is around yet is because u dont need the 1000 per year in upgrades to your pc to play it... besides hl2s sales rates will suck like un-real 2k3 cuz of the whole pirating issue but dont get me wrong ill play both games for xbox..... on a more serious did u ppl suck at halo or something that u didnt enjoy blowing the sh.t outa ppl or snipeing cuz if i have half that much fun with hal2 in the multiplayer area it will by far be great thats bout it someone bitch me out i enjoy it |
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| July 28, 2003, 10:52 PM CST by lyncher to cmdrmonkey | | dudes offline for a moment or too please ,, halo 2 will support to the fan basis more becasue alot of us dont have live yet so teh lan parties will be cooken again does hl2s and d3s lan capabilities hold up to the superir halo 2 give me a hell no there that said halo 2 will be better then hl2 and doom 3 off line on line its diff. if hope halo 2 would beat doom 3 but hl2 will be superior cuz its modiblity soo i saw blahhhh very childishly cuz i got a good pt. |
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| July 28, 2003, 11:21 PM CST by khaid to lyncher | For one, if UT2003's sales sucked (I haven't seen evidence of this), it wouldn't be because of piracy. UT2003 is made for online purposes. If you pirated UT2003, it would be sort of pointless because you would not have a valid CD-KEY to play online.
if halo 2 would ever have the modibilty that hl2 has it would trounce hl2 easily
How is that so? You still believe that Halo 2 is a more anticipated title than Half-Life 2? But since Halo 2 is a console game, it does not have the modability of a PC game.
It looks like you're taking this back to XBOX vs. PC version rather than XBOX vs XBOX version.
on a more serious did u ppl suck at halo or something that u didnt enjoy blowing the sh.t outa ppl or snipeing
It sure was fun. But it gets old after playing it to death. Also, since you can't mod anything, the life of the game is cut down dramatically.
so teh lan parties will be cooken again does hl2s and d3s lan capabilities hold up to the superir halo 2
You do know that this is where PC Gaming has been in lets say.. forever? But if you are taking it back to XBOX vs. XBOX, it's hard to say since neither game has been on XBOX. It's hard to guess what MP features they would add. |
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| July 28, 2003, 11:29 PM CST by lyncher to khaid | ya box vs box in the offline lan experiance if have heard nothing soo far on hl2 general path with that
doom 3 and halo 2 are sketchy but with whats expected from halo 2 from the last halo its safe to say the offline lan will kill rotten buttt period and with the picture of modibilty out of the way for the xbox (hl2) its multiplayer is basically crushed ..... please ppl im trying to compare the box version of hl2 and d3 no the pc and dont bring up the whole downloadable content theary for mods on the box cuz thats to much a hassle |
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| July 29, 2003, 3:57 AM CST by pjbliverpool to lyncher | You are deluded. I guarentee you that there are more people looking forward to either one of HL2 or Doom 3 than that there are looking forward to Halo 2. You only have to look at the dozens of online votes and anticipated games charts all over the web to prove that.
The fact is the Halo 2 will look old and play old next to HL2 and Doom 3. |
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| July 29, 2003, 6:59 AM CST by spoom to lyncher | for me, it's:
hl2>doomIII>halo 2
this is based entirely on speculation and the few video clips that are available. i recently bought a new computer just so i can play hl2 and doom III. halo 2 will no doubt be great, but from what i have seen, it will PAIL in comparison to these other 2 monster pc games.
i chose hl2 over doom just because of the success of the first one, and the striders in the trailer blew me away. i was amazed. doom three also looks creepy and good, but it seems more like an arcade shoot em up. hl2 seems to have more depth and a great story line. |
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| July 29, 2003, 10:18 AM CST by whocares | | This argument has been going round in circles ever since E3 and seems to show no signs of slowing down! Though PJB I admire your zeal to reply to fanboy after fanboy so dutifully, surely the bastards are starting to wear you down by now? |
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| July 29, 2003, 10:59 AM CST by Calgon to pjbliverpool |
The fact is the Halo 2 will look old and play old next to HL2 and Doom 3.
Hang on thats a bit harsh have you played Halo much? I enjoyed it more than half-life myself.
Since Half-Life 2 according to game is due out around September/November I think Halo 2 has more time to get things right and add new features to make it more appealing. Graphically Halo 2 doesn't look too far behind HL2 and Doom3 and I think you'll need a good setup to get the results seen on the E3 Demos which many people don't.
I hope all three are good personally but I think Bungie know what they are up against and will take the extra time they have to perfect Halo 2 to make it live up to the hype surrounding it. So lets just wait untill the games are out before speculating shall we, lets play and enjoy the games coming then give our comments about how good we think they are. |
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| July 29, 2003, 12:09 PM CST by pvcHH | | Are we allowed to enjoy all 3 games equally; perhaps for different reasons? |
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| July 29, 2003, 1:35 PM CST by lyncher to pvcHH | | m$ wins in the end i just can belive that ppl actually pey like 200-1000 $ per year to upgrade there pc's just to play a game games are meant to be a time to get away form life, not one's life some ppl just need a girl or something i guess |
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| July 29, 2003, 1:40 PM CST by khaid to lyncher | Again, people do not and do not need to upgrade their PC's every year.
And what does upgrading your PC have anything to do with your life? Let's see.. I upgrade my PC yearly so I have no life. Makes sense? |
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| July 29, 2003, 3:21 PM CST by cmdrmonkey to lyncher | I have a girlfriend, a very hot girlfriend in fact, and i routinely upgrade my PC. What are you getting at? Upgrading and modding PCs is a hobby for quite a few people, me included. It appeals to the same mindset as modding a car or chopping a motorcycle. There's something appealing about knowing you have a better rig than anyone else you know. In reality, however, its not absolutely necessary to upgrade your PC every year; i would say it becomes necessary more like every 3 years. I also use my PC for alot more than just gaming.
Just out of curiosity what are the specs on your PC lyncher? There are very few PC games that really take advantage of the hardware that's around today, and its possible to game on a PC quite cheaply at the moment. These days if a game runs slowly its more likely due to bad programming than to a problem with the PC's hardware being too slow. Youve bought too heavily into this console fanboy propaganda about PC gaming being too complicated and expensive. |
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| July 30, 2003, 4:11 AM CST by pjbliverpool to whocares | | zapping fanboys is what I do for fun when at work! |
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| July 30, 2003, 4:19 AM CST by pjbliverpool to Calgon | Yeah your right, that was a bit harsh. But considering some of the crap that these fanboys make up i think I can be allowed to go a little beyond the facts in my replys to them now and then ;)
You are indeed right that Halo 2 might have amazing gameplay compared with HL2 and Doom3 but I certainly don't think the time difference will have anything to do with that. If anything, HL2 should be better because they have had far longer to make the sequal than they had with Halo2.
My statements about play better where actually based in fact a little though. Because HL2 and Doom 3 will be on pc, there are certain aspects of those games that will "play better" than halo2 (at least the pc versions). Things like faster and fewer loading times, more enemies on screen, larger levels, better AI and better controls. These things are possible on the pc thanks to more ram and stronger cpu's. For example, we know that when D3 is ported to the xbox, its levels will be broken into smaller chunks so the at the xbox's memory can handle it. HL2 will likely have fewer players in multiplayer and enemies in both games will likely be slower and not as clever to make up for the more difficult controls.
As for the graphics, Halo 2 will certainly look great but from what i have seen from the video's, it is a fair few steps behind D3 and HL2. It certainly feels unimpressive when you watch the Halo2 video straight after the HL2 and D3 ones. |
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| July 30, 2003, 11:26 AM CST by sm284614 | | Graphics and processing aside, the main differences are surely that Halo is action driven, Doom is susspense driven, and Half Life is story/event driven. Feel free to argue with me loads for no real reason. |
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| August 1, 2003, 7:53 PM CST by kenneth9265 | HL2 = Doom 3 > Halo 2
That is my equation! |
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| August 1, 2003, 8:55 PM CST by lyncher | | in halo 2 will there be a human air craft? i thought soo and if there is what would it be? the fighter in halo or like a helecopter? |
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| August 1, 2003, 9:02 PM CST by Suckattack to lyncher | | Who cares? All this-and-then-some can already be appreciated with games like BF1942, especially the mods! |
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| August 2, 2003, 8:20 PM CST by embargiel |
Doom 3 is using simple perpixel lighting with stencil shadows. That is not mind blowing nore advanced, it's also only using direct illumination, not global illumination. Again not advanced. So what does that mean? Since I know you know jack about graphics let me explain this for you, using those effects, that LIMITS what Doom 3 can do graphicly, and it limits it greatly, on todays hardware you can do much more advanced effects which offer so much more dynamic possablities then that. Thats what happens to a game engine that has been in dev for this long and has its core bulit around a GF 2. Another problem with Doom 3 is it's stencil shadows. Doom 3 uses stencil shadows volumes for all lights, those stencil shadows are HARD and many look unrealistic, or could look far better on todays hardware by using soft shadows. Also GI would be a big improvement too. What this comes down to is Doom 3s engine, while impressive to view, its not impressive in what its doing and the lack of advanced pixel shader features limits what it can do. There are better ways to do lighting and shadows , better ways like what Halo 2 is doing...
Speaking of Halo 2, it is using PHOTON MAPPING for the lighitng which is far more advanced then the per pixel lighting Doom 3 is using. Now I know you have no clue on what Photon Mapping is, but it is the 2nd most advanced type of lighting you can use for real time games behind only Spherical Harmonic Mapping. Photon mapping is a type of global illumination, which is much more impressive then Direct illumination. It also is similar to ray tracing. It's best featuer other then looking and acting like real light, is diffuse interreflection. Which is also known as color bleeding and is exactly how real life lighting works. I will talk more about diffuse interreflections in a min. Halo 2 is also using soft shadows to help give some of the shadows a more realistic look. These features allow Halo 2s lighting to be much more dynamic and realistic then any of the lighting in Doom 3, that is a FACT.
Lol it still amazes me how ignorant and unwilling some people are to just accecpt the fact that Doom 3s lighting is no where near as advanced as Halo 2s. THIS IS A FACT, a pure 100% fact. Ask any graphics artist or programer and they will be the first to tell you that Doom 3s lighting is extreamly simple compared to Halo 2s. Again I already went into great detail on page 4 about the lighting. Doom 3s lighting CAN'T look better, its impossable, end of story, its using a far less advaced form of lighting that LIMITs what it can do, things like realistic color bleeding/GI is not possable with its lighting system. Those are 2 BIG features that Halo 2 uses. It's lighting is far more dynamic. END OF STORY. There are no ifs, ands or buts about the lighting and shadows in Halo 2 vs Doom 3.
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| August 3, 2003, 1:51 AM CST by khaid to embargiel | | lolo! Dude, please post the source to that. Please. I want to see if his email is exposed so I can subscribe him to all pr0n newsletters. |
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| August 3, 2003, 8:17 AM CST by Suckattack to embargiel | | HAHA! Is that Cybercrash in disguise as an Xbox fanboy now? |
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| August 3, 2003, 11:11 AM CST by sm284614 to embargiel |
Doom 3s engine, while impressive to view, its not impressive in what its doing
Soooooo... Doom 3 looks really good, but it's not using enough system resources?
I'm sure John Carmack is just another average programmer who isn't pushing the froniers of graphics technology forward, and can't seem to make graphics or physics engines better using the highest-end PC hardware than with two- or three-year old xbox hardware. |
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| August 3, 2003, 11:23 AM CST by boggyb to sm284614 | | Of course, don't be silly. XBox has infinite power! The people who made Halo told us that the XBox was much more powerful than the PC is, and it has been since it was released! The XBox has infinite power, which is why Halo 2 looks infinitely better than DOOM 3. |
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| August 3, 2003, 2:24 PM CST by sm284614 to boggyb | | If I had an infinite power measuring device... |
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| August 3, 2003, 11:53 PM CST by ImStupid to embargiel | But Doom3 and Halo 2 aren't just about lighting and shadows are they?
Ico uses difused lighting and its an old and ugly game by todays standards. Doom 3 WILL have better reflections than Halo 2 and Half Life 2 because it is using true 128bit processing. The exactness of the calculations will be far more realistic due to higher decimal places. I'm not talking about 'packing' either I'm talking about true 128 bit data types and calculations. |
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| August 4, 2003, 5:59 PM CST by Suckattack to ImStupid | Ah, whatever. It goes like ChairmanSteve said, Doom3>Half-Life2>Halo2. Frankly, I can care less. I'm getting them all!
Now the question becomes, what do you think will have the longest staying power?
I'm no modder and/or programmer, but my prediction says that a new Counter-Strike mod will be made using the new HL2 engine, thus prolonging its life into the next generation (as what happened w/ the original).
As for Doom3, it looks like a pain in the ass to mod and program for. And if that's true, I don't think there will be too many mods for it.
Halo 2 might be popular and its longetivity may be extended after the initial 20 times of beating the game in coop on Legendary (or similar) via Xbox Live downloadable content. But much like the first Halo (but w/ a bit more juice), I don't see it as that big of a phenomenon, given the limitations of it being a console game. |
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| August 4, 2003, 6:05 PM CST by embargiel to Suckattack | | Actually, I'm waiting for him posting here. As steve is always saying, that more advance technically = fact, more visually appealing = opinion. If steve was saying that this game is better looking than the other one, than the better looking game has to be more advance technically which is in this case, Doom 3. But the post that I posted above tells briefly the reason on why Halo 2 can be more advance graphically. And ImStupid has posted some good points there. |
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| August 4, 2003, 6:08 PM CST by Suckattack to embargiel | | Technically, I heard it said that no other video game has done the light bloom exhibited in Halo 2 during that first trailer released. I don't know, I think Doom 3 just might have much better, more sophisticated lighting. |
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| August 4, 2003, 6:32 PM CST by embargiel to Suckattack | Yea, is says something like the implementation of Photon Mapping so that the light can blend color naturally.
http://members.aol.com/crazykwazy/comparelightingindoor.jpg#
Though we have yet to see how it can be used on the in-game scene. And I'm pretty sure that I don't really see it on the in-game scene E3 trailer which supposedly triggers some circumstances providing that kind of effect (the color bends naturally or stuff or whatever). ANd yes, from what I've seen so far (Doom 3 E3 trailer, Halo 2 E3 trailer, the first Halo 2 trailer and Doom 3 Alpha demo), Doom 3 still looks better, but I just want to know if someone here (expectedly steve) can explain better regarding the lighting comparison). |
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| August 5, 2003, 4:51 AM CST by pjbliverpool to embargiel | Im pretty sure that Doom 3 is the only game (including HL2 and Halo2) that uses a completely dynamic lighting system just like in the real world. Halo 2 and even HL2 use a mixture of global illumination (which I thought was the basic form of lighting used in most games) and dynamic lighting which is the type used in Splintercell (but not exclusively).
But either way, that guy is a fanboy, pure and simple and all I have to say to him is: Which one looks better? |
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| August 5, 2003, 4:55 AM CST by pjbliverpool to embargiel | Those pics are actually a pretty good comparison, halo 2 gets wasted in my opinion even though it is showing a cutscene and the other two are gameplay (that fire effect is amazing!)
And one thing I can guarentee is that there will be some objects in Halo 2 that also don't emit shadows (I think you can see that much in the video). |
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| August 5, 2003, 10:27 AM CST by sm284614 | | Talking of fire, are any of these three using volumetric atmospherics or fire? |
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| August 5, 2003, 10:30 AM CST by boggyb to pjbliverpool | | Yeah, Global illumination is the general type used. You set a color and intensity, that's it. |
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| August 5, 2003, 10:31 AM CST by boggyb to embargiel | | That's a pretty cool website. If you go to the parent directory theres a few comparison shots. Did you make that? |
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| August 5, 2003, 8:32 PM CST by embargiel to boggyb | | LOL, it wasn't me. For starter, myself, I don't think that Halo 2's lighting effects are the best. And I am one of those few people who thinks that Half LIfe 2 looks better than Halo 2. |
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| August 5, 2003, 8:34 PM CST by embargiel to pjbliverpool | | LOL, you forget about something. XGPU is fully supporting DX10, DX11, and it's DX12 compliant. YOur Radeon 19600 and GFFX 11800 are no comparison. And that is 100000 % fact! Blame Bungie and Id who can't push out the graphical capability of the XGPU to its max! |
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| August 5, 2003, 8:43 PM CST by Suckattack to embargiel | | You're one of the few? I think you may very well be part of the majority. It's true, technically and graphically, Halo 2 can't compare to Half-Life 2 in all its glory (using the latest hardware). |
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| August 5, 2003, 11:16 PM CST by lyncher | | whats new gameplay wise with half life 2 ??? |
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| August 6, 2003, 1:56 AM CST by khaid to lyncher | You serious? Have you played the original Half-Life? Have you watched the Half-Life 2 videos?
From the videos, it's using the Havoc physics engine. Using those physics, you can set numerous traps. New weapons. Fully controllable vehicles. Better AI for your teammates and enemies. There's probably more, but that's all I remember for now. |
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| August 6, 2003, 4:35 AM CST by pjbliverpool to embargiel | Yeah, but don't forget tho that the xgox is 5 generations ahead of anything on the pc so its bound to be better!!
But seriously, you spend too much time in those xbox fanboy forums, I think they are getting to you! I actually paid a visit to the forum you mentioned but I didn't know where to start as there where so many fanboys that I thought I would just leave them too it.
If you want to see a true representation of what the educated public will think is the better game, I think this forum is much better. Those fanboys will shut up when the game is actually released and their hopes are dashed. |
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| August 6, 2003, 5:19 AM CST by boggyb to embargiel | | Huh? If it's 10000& true that makes it more true than true o___O |
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| August 8, 2003, 10:24 PM CST by lyncher to khaid | | those are basic improvements halo offers most of that also. (physics not so much) i still dont see the point in everyone tricken over hl2. I mean it looks cool but in the end halo 2 will offer much more fun.. But i guess 6 months from now well all know... maybe unreal 2k4 will be good with all its knock offishness. now im rambeling. just tell me whats so great about a game that been in development for 5 years thats worth telling.. what u mentioned is expected. |
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| August 8, 2003, 10:26 PM CST by lyncher | | is it true that halo pc will offer modability? That would be sweet with all my cool ideas... hell lets compare hl2 vs halo pc suicide |
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| August 11, 2003, 10:22 AM CST by pjbliverpool to lyncher | Yes Halo 2 will do it all but HL2 will do it all better.
What do you base your assumption that Halo 2 will be better on? I think the vast majority of people who have played both will agree that Half Life was better than Halo in there respective days. |
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| August 11, 2003, 9:47 PM CST by lyncher to pjbliverpool | | i just really liked the whole story and vehical driveing. Not to mention i slaughter ppl in halo so i guess the whole me being domanent thing helps. It fun to tell the person thee deed and when they turn around u whack them. I just think Halo 2 will offer that and then some. The melee combos should be sweet. i like whacking more then knifing or crow-baring. |
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| August 11, 2003, 10:15 PM CST by khaid to lyncher |
i like whacking
Yes, I agree. |
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| August 12, 2003, 6:12 AM CST by pjbliverpool to lyncher | There are vehicles in HL2 aswell. And im pretty sure there will be more weapons than just a crowbar in HL2!
What about standing behind someone and then when they turn round, grabbing them with the antigrav gun and flinging them 100 feet into the air where they can fall to their death?
Sounds like fun to me. |
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| August 12, 2003, 6:18 AM CST by one_grim_reaper to lyncher | | Whacking people is ok, but remember, doom has chainsaw's :D. |
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| August 12, 2003, 9:45 AM CST by Suckattack | | The vehicles and the gameplay elements it brings to the table in Half-Life 2 is just bad-ass! It's nothing new nor innovating, but the use of the graphics and physics engine just makes it so mind-blowing! |
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| August 12, 2003, 9:45 PM CST by lyncher to Suckattack | | 2 years ago u prolly said that about halo. Not? im just saying that halo 2 will not fall..... easily and many ppl will play it. I think halo 2 is getting no hype right now becasue it has not shown us what we want.. Halo was made famous in part with its nice outdoor enviroments and all we've seen in halo 2 are walls and cities. wait till an outdoor screen is leaked or more footage od outdoor enviroments.. I know u ppl will be hyped up agin once what u used to know and love is made even more superior. Agree with me or not? bungie show us out door footage and this hl2 boys will calm down.... cough untill hl2 shows them out door footage. |
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| August 13, 2003, 12:09 AM CST by CriTioN to lyncher | But, but, we've already seen HL2's outdoor footage. The levels looked gigantic in the Half Life 2 movies. Yeah, Halo II's levels looked big, but nowhere as large as HL2's levels.
BTW, I thought the driving in Halo sucked. It was easy to control, but it steered like the rear of the vehicle had zero weight. Hopefully it will be fixed in the second. (Please don't suck this time around!). In all farness, Half Life's driving really sucked... Lets ride the railroad tracks! hehe
Besides, the only thing that HL2 lacks is Halo II's Obitronic Circular Scaling. ;) |
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| August 13, 2003, 6:48 AM CST by pjbliverpool to lyncher | | Yes but if you compare the city footage in Halo 2 to the city footage in HL2, the difference is almost laughable. I think this is the reason why most people are keeping quete about Halo 2's graphics. |
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| August 13, 2003, 7:19 AM CST by Suckattack | | Half-Life 2 has the best physics. End of story, 'ite! |
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| August 13, 2003, 9:40 AM CST by embargiel to lyncher |
Agree with me or not? bungie show us out door footage and this hl2 boys will calm down.... cough untill hl2 shows them out door footage.
It could be possible, but there would be another possibility. After Bungie shows us more about its indoor environment, these Halo 2 boys will be calm down, for it's not even close to be as good as they thought it would be (the cutscene)? Agree with me or not? |
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| August 13, 2003, 10:10 AM CST by Suckattack | | I have an idea of how Halo 2's vehicles will play and handle. I'm not so sure about Half-Life 2's. Maybe it'll play similar to that of, say, Battlefield 1942? I hope it goes well and plays better. |
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| August 13, 2003, 4:24 PM CST by lyncher to pjbliverpool | | yes i know that. but was halo every great for indoor graphics? umm no.. and driveing in halo is easy u guys must suck at it |
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| August 13, 2003, 10:12 PM CST by lyncher | | does anyone have shots of of halo 2s out door enviroments? |
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| August 13, 2003, 10:55 PM CST by CriTioN to lyncher | You can download the high quality movie and then take snap shots. Have you seen the movie? (haven't read all posts :).
http://www.gamers.com/game/1216284/ |
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| August 14, 2003, 4:58 AM CST by andwatpunk | | Ive never been to this forum and this iz probably tha last time i will reply on this forum.I own an xbox and i personally hav halo 2 first,half life second and doom 3 last simply because ive played the original halo (i still do) and tha game iz one of the best first person games i hav ever played. I played tha original half life (just recently) and its OK,i hav seen all of the half life 2 bink demos & e3 demos and at first (and continuing for a while) i was amazed and excited because its revolutionary & innovative at tha same time,But it seems to hav worn off im not sure why but from wat i hav seen the textures are dissapointing (from wat ive seen in tha bink demos) and i think my expectations were too high for it. I probably wont buy doom 3 simply because its a polished indoor shooter apparently (from wat i hav seen) and has no apparent innovative features. Also how can u prejudge halo 2 when almost no indoor videos hav even been released? Also video of any game does it no justice since it will never show the amount of quality of in-game rendering or whatever. Thirdly(?) While the physics in halo were catagorically arcadey,its still very realistic. Also how can you people hypothesize so much? Have any of you guys read reports of the benefits of console bandwith and tha like? I dont remember it totally but a report said you can get better graphics on a console becuz it allows more bandwith & its memory isint being shared with other programs and OS's(?) . Im probably getting to technical but o well. Oh and arent all 1st person shooters repettive technically? all they ask you to do is shoot everything,get this,open that,& protect this. I dont think this is a bad thing at all as long as you can hav fun with the enemies & the environments while doing those.I will say tho that half life 2's physics should be more complex than halo's (the scene when that flying thing gets shot down and slides down tha road,hitting all of the cars on the way is simply amazin) but remember just because theyre more complex dosent mean theyre better,atleast i think. |
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| August 14, 2003, 5:45 AM CST by pjbliverpool to andwatpunk |
own an xbox and i personally hav halo 2 first,half life second and doom 3 last simply because ive played the original halo (i still do) and tha game iz one of the best first person games i hav ever played.
For their day both Doom and Halflife where bigger and better games than Halo. Halo may be better overall but it has the benefit of increased experience and technology since the days of Doom and HL. Since Doom 3 and HL2 both use superior technology to Halo 2 and they are being developed at the same time thus benefiting from the same industry experience, there is no reason to expect Halo 2 to be better this time round (thats not to say that it won't be - gameplay wise).
Also how can u prejudge halo 2 when almost no indoor videos hav even been released?
Who needs indoor video's? Most FPS's look best in the outdoor areas and even if they don't, the graphical quality of the outdoor areas will definatly reflect that of the indoor areas. We have seen what Halo 2 looks like outdoors and HL2 is clearly considerably better looking. So there is no preducice here, people have seen the video's and Halo 2 looks by far the worse of the 3 games. It is just wishfull thinking to say that the final result might be different.
from wat i hav seen the textures are dissapointing
Then perhaps you have been watching the wrong video because the textures in HL2 are absolutely incredible, certainly an order of magnitude better than those in Halo2.
Have any of you guys read reports of the benefits of console bandwith and tha like? I dont remember it totally but a report said you can get better graphics on a console becuz it allows more bandwith & its memory isint being shared with other programs and OS's(?) . Im probably getting to technical but o well.
Yes, you are getting way to technical for yourself. Not to be offensive but you don't understand how these thing work. Many people in here do and you can take it from me that even with the extra efficiency of a console, a midrange pc is considerably more powerful in real terms. |
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| August 14, 2003, 5:52 AM CST by Fusion to andwatpunk | i kno wat u meen i hav halo 2 2 and it iz da bomb ?hy wuld any1 want sum cr4ppy pc game doom3 is shiate becuze i hav bean playin it 4 monts and it iz just crap i dun hav hl2 but i hav play hl and it crap and old like it was mad laste sentaury physicx don' meen all.
O_e
No one said the physics in HL2 are only more complex, they are all round better.. and how is it you have Halo 2 and the FINAL copy of doom 3. If you don't, i dont see how you can make judgements and compare the titles by pretending you do. |
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| August 14, 2003, 5:55 AM CST by andwatpunk | | huh? i never said i had halo 2 and doom 3,i said from wat i hav seen & read. |
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| August 14, 2003, 4:31 PM CST by Knowname | | I vote PainKiller |
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| August 14, 2003, 5:00 PM CST by Knowbody to Knowname | | I vote Pokeyshot! |
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| August 14, 2003, 8:01 PM CST by lyncher to pjbliverpool | | i hate to do this but isnt it ironic how still a console game 2 years in development holds its own agaist 2 pc game that have been worked on for 5 years already? maybe we should let bungie work on halo 2 and tweak it and maximize the xbox's hardware. becase conpairing a game that has been worked on for 5 years and has had the graphical upgrades isnt fair competion for a game that is being rushed and not had time to tweak its graphics. eh but i did start this thread and i still think that halo 2 will look awesome if it hade been in development for 5 years already then what would its chances be??? but so on and on i could rammble one but i guess they still have 6 monthes and can always tweak there mistakes and an mistakes that d3 and hl2 could make. |
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| August 14, 2003, 8:03 PM CST by lyncher to CriTioN | | i want out door enviroments not a town.. and no outdoor enviroments can not be compaired to indoors |
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| August 15, 2003, 3:17 AM CST by andwatpunk to Knowname | | yea painkiller looks niice. :-D |
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| August 15, 2003, 4:17 AM CST by Fusion to andwatpunk | "I own an xbox and i personally hav halo 2 first,half life second and doom 3 last simply because ive played the original halo (i still do) and tha game iz one of the best first person games i hav ever played. I played tha original half life (just recently) and its OK,"
No, i think you quite 'clearly' stated you have both Halo 2 and Doom3... ok not very clear(but thats your fault sorry), but i dont see how it can be interpreted otherwise.
You then go on to say you only recently played HL and are basically saying it isn't anything special... What do you expect from a 5 year old game? You've played games made 4 years + after it, you can't help but be dissapointed because of the newer games you've played being more 'advanced'. |
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| August 15, 2003, 4:36 AM CST by andwatpunk to Fusion | | o brother,no u didnt read it correctly,since everyone was making a list of their most anticipated games i said i personally hav halo 2 FIRST,half life 2 SECOND,and doom THIRD. why dont u read a little bit slower next time. |
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| August 15, 2003, 4:54 AM CST by pjbliverpool to lyncher | If Halo 2 had been in development for 5 years it would look exactly the same as it does now. Who said it was rushed? In fact Bungie have always said that they are taking their time with Halo 2 and that it won't be released until its perfect.
I don't know if HL2 and D3 have been in development longer but I don't think it really matters. They are all being released at roughly the same time and they are therfore all comparable.
I would personally say that its more ironic that halo 2 was originaly hyped up to be the best looking game ever and now we have two much better looking games that will be released months in advance of it (possibly more depending on Farcry and STALKER). |
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| August 15, 2003, 5:40 AM CST by Fusion to andwatpunk | No you wrote it in a very confusing way.
'I own an xbox'
You state this, then in the same sentance with no commas seperating the two you go on to say...
and i personally hav halo 2 first,half life second and doom 3
After saying you own something you go on to say you personally 'hav'e ..... and then list the games. The first, second and third don't make it clear at all, thats a common way to list things. Especially when in a 'debate', many people tend to over elaborate and often explain things much more vividly and slowly, so their points are not confused like yours were. I see what your saying now and im sorry i misinterpreted it, but, it really wasnt clear. Also as i suspected, what happened to that 'first and last' post. |
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| August 15, 2003, 6:20 AM CST by pjbliverpool to lyncher | Yes outdoor areas can be compared to indoor. They will have similar lighting, effects, textures and character models.
If we know what a game looks like outside, we have a pretty good idea about what it will look like inside.
Also, at least in HL2, we have seen video's of outdoor areas that are not towns. |
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| August 15, 2003, 10:39 AM CST by lyncher to pjbliverpool | hwo could halo 2 not look better if it were in devlopment for 5 years. its roughly only been 2 dont u think bungie could tweak out any mistakes and perfect halo2 or are u giving bungie one big compliment that they dont screw up and have done a wonderful job on halo2 considering the time they've had.
2nd far cry will have the best poutdoor enviroments every period.
3rd since quakcon or what ever i think its safe to say that doom 3 doesnt hold its own at all for multiplayer 4 player dm wow!!! sure hope the single player is good (some dude said that what they wanted good,, since when did there little minds decide that a stroy mode for a fps is better then multi player mayhem??
seroius no one should give halo 2 crap seeinf as it will own all of the fpses. i know alot of ppl who wont buy hl2 just becasue there PCs will die when running it. at least xbox boys will bask in the glory of the mighty console |
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| August 15, 2003, 11:05 AM CST by khaid to lyncher | Of course Halo 2 would look much better if it were in development for 5+ yrs. By that time, it would be on XBOX 2.
Console games can only look as good as the set hardware allows. Those are the facts. |
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| August 15, 2003, 8:45 PM CST by lyncher to khaid | | lets say halo 2 has been in development for 5 years already. it would look alot better then the halo 2 now thats only been around for 2 years. they we could fairly comapin graphics. all halo 2 need in the visual department is special effects like metroid prime with the head boob and visor effects(water cascade. and water vaper) that was cool |
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| August 15, 2003, 8:56 PM CST by lyncher | dudes whats up with all the high end games on xbox in the next year the only one i dont see is far cry. By far xbox is the only system to look at in the coming monthes. Fable, Halo 2, Doom 3, Full spec. warrior, Hl2, gta.?? wow when i look at this list i still wonder what iv forgot. Xbox will dominate any pc in the new future. Pc has doom 3 (with 4 player deatmatch) and hl2. look at the exclusives for xbox Fable will rock, Halo 2 will slaughetr, Full spec warior will be cool. with these hopefully exlusive titles xbox will be on kick ass console soon and very soon.
dare i say that xbox over all dominated e3?? Sure hl2 was the best game there but rite behind it was all xbox titles not to mention hl2 will be on xbox. Im sure some pc fanboys might be considering to purchase an xbox just to get all its exlusives ya its true u know it. |
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| August 15, 2003, 9:06 PM CST by embargiel to lyncher |
Xbox will dominate any pc in the new future. Pc has doom 3 (with 4 player deatmatch) and hl2. look at the exclusives for xbox Fable will rock, Halo 2 will slaughetr, Full spec warior will be cool.
Full Spectrum will be out for PC also. And PC gamers get Everquest 2 and STALKER that are not even possible hardwarewiser in your (and my) Xbox. And we surely do know how good HL2 will turn out when ported to Xbox. |
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| August 15, 2003, 9:07 PM CST by chairmansteve to lyncher | | No mouse on Xbox. |
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| August 15, 2003, 9:50 PM CST by Suckattack to embargiel | No we won't. It'll turn out just as crappy, if not worse, than Soldier of Fortune. Chances are, the original developer, Valve, won't even be the ones doing the porting. They'll leave it up to some other "newb" developers to "milk" the franchise.
Am I a bit harsh to the Xbox fanboys? I apologize, but that's the reality that I see will happen. Am I a smart-ass? You betcha! |
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| August 16, 2003, 10:24 AM CST by embargiel to Suckattack | | Oooucccchh, [sarcasm]you retard[/sarcasm]. Xbox version of HL2 will be AT LEAST 10 times better than the PC version. A 733 MHZ CPU found in Xbox is at least equal to a 3 GHz P4 for PC, because Xbox doesn't have to run all of those windows and OS thingies, it takes at least a 2.5 GHz of CPU to run all of those stuffs plus all the background programs. ALso, its GPU is located somewhere between GF10 and GF11, to be a hundred times better than the current GPU, thanks. |
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| August 16, 2003, 12:15 PM CST by boggyb to embargiel | Actually, that's so wrong, you idiot.
XBox has INFINITE power, remember? The peopel from Bungie told us? God, you're an idiot.
</sarcasm> |
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| August 17, 2003, 12:51 AM CST by andwatpunk to chairmansteve | | i bleemin hate mouses when im playing games,they get dirty and i hav to clean em and sh*t,i prefer a controller (with two sticks) |
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| August 17, 2003, 12:56 AM CST by ImMoRTaL to andwatpunk | | Those amazing console controllers seem to repel dirt and sticky soda like magic. |
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| August 17, 2003, 4:21 AM CST by TheRhubarbMan to ImMoRTaL | [sarcasm]Yeah, you NEVER need to clean a controller![/sarcasm]
andwatpunk, ever heard of an optical mouse? Besides, you cant compare a mouse to a controller in first person shooters. Any experienced gamer will tell you that |
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| August 17, 2003, 7:11 AM CST by boggyb to TheRhubarbMan | | I got an optical mouse. Best computer-related investment I ever made. |
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| August 17, 2003, 3:32 PM CST by TheRhubarbMan to boggyb | | Damn straight. Got me a logitech optical for £25. That was almost 3 years ago, and it still works fine. The only cleaning I ever have to do is the dirt that gets between the gaps in the plastic |
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| August 18, 2003, 12:37 PM CST by pjbliverpool to lyncher | So then explain why Bungie keep saying they won't release Halo 2 until they are completely happy with it? Doesn't this suggest that they are taking their time to perfect the game instead of it being rushed like you claim.
Halo 2 is the best Bungie could get out of the xbox. If more time would let them get significantly more out of it then they have said all along that they will take more time. |
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| August 18, 2003, 12:41 PM CST by pjbliverpool to andwatpunk | Have you never heard of an optical mouse? A mouse is VASTLY superior to a couple of plastic thumbtacks for accurate aiming in any game. And a mouse is much less likely to "snap off" from over use.
At least with a pc you get the choice of using either a mouse or a control pad. For fps, the vast, vast majority of people choose the mouse because its much better. |
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| August 18, 2003, 12:43 PM CST by pjbliverpool to lyncher | err, you just listed a losd of games which are also on the pc except in a better form. Yeah great reason to go and buy an xbox!
And a working xbox emulator is very close to completion now. Kiss goodbye to all those juicy exclusives. I'll let you know how they play at 1600x1200 :) |
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| August 18, 2003, 3:17 PM CST by Suckattack to pjbliverpool | | Don't get all your hopes up on those emulatators. I'm confident they won't work merely as well atleast until the new generation of systems come out. By then, people will only use the emus as a side hobby. |
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| August 18, 2003, 3:58 PM CST by pjbliverpool to Suckattack | It took about 1 year between Ultra Hle being released to barely run Mario 64 and it being refined to run many of the top N64 games near perfectly. To say nothing of the other emulators that one success seems to breed.
Since the xbox is considerably easier to emulate than the N64 was I have high hopes that within 6 months we will be seeing some of the top games emulated on pc with near perfection.
The ps2 may take longer but aside from GT3/4, there is nothing I really want on it anyway and you can almost guarentee that they will be the first games that emulators target. |
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| August 18, 2003, 5:02 PM CST by Cipher | | Half Life 2 is my pick despite the fact I would consider Halo 2. Doom 3 well just say I never liked the game since playing it. Halo was good experience and everything but this thing is an original and like I say stick with the original if it is good. |
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| August 18, 2003, 5:09 PM CST by lyncher to pjbliverpool | | ok so tell me why it took hl2 and doom 3 to be in development for so long. Im sure there stories arnt as complex as fables. they have been working on there graphics engines and tweaking them thats way. Bungie is lying they are rushing the game. maybe they can relax alittle i dont care becasue ill have hl2 and doom 3 to play untill halo 2. but now im going off what still matters is gameplaydoom 3 dont have,, from what iv heard(multiplayer) and hl2 will last from mods. halo 2 will have its many glitches i hope. ANY DEVELOPER THAT CAN COMPLETE A MULTI MILLION EXPECTED SELLING GAME IN 2 MERE YEARS IS RUSHING THAT GAME NO QUESTIIONS AAAAASKED.. well i suppose it will be 3 years in develpment befor its released. Not only have they redone the engine, they have written new story, more vehicals, online multiplayer. and redone MC's suit. If they can easily do that in a 3 year span and not feel rushed then they must have alot of ppl working on the game..anyone know how many ppl?. well thats all... i dont care if halo 2 is rushed cuz thats whats made halo so long lasting is all it many fun glitches.(IM not talking bout the tower either) Any one try hunter jumping.. its cool better then granade jumping |
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| August 18, 2003, 5:14 PM CST by Suckattack to lyncher |
ANY DEVELOPER THAT CAN COMPLETE A MULTI MILLION EXPECTED SELLING GAME IN 2 MERE YEARS IS RUSHING THAT GAME NO QUESTIIONS AAAAASKED..
And what do you call of the developers of the latest Tomb Raider game, then? How long was that in development for? Eversince before the launch of PS2, right?...
Hey, no development studio is created equal. And certainly not their games. |
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| August 18, 2003, 6:16 PM CST by Cipher to lyncher | | Redone everything huh?! Well last game that made that big of an impact and overpraised. Was the Gta series from Three to Vice City. Changed charcter not much of a story changer just tweaked. New cars and guns. I just hope Halo 2 doen't end up like that. |
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| August 18, 2003, 9:10 PM CST by Suckattack to Cipher | Hey, Halo 2 isn't running on PS2 hardware, alright? We're talking about lighting, AI, graphics, DD5.1 audio, graphics, and everything eles put together that makes it impossible to run properly on PS2 hardware.
Same applies to the other two respective games. |
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| August 18, 2003, 11:20 PM CST by kenneth9265 | | have anybody played Doom 64 on the the Nintendo 64? It kind of suprized me, I really enjoyed it! |
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| August 19, 2003, 12:08 AM CST by lyncher to Cipher | | i personally thought that vice city ruled and still does. not only have they tweacked everything they added flying. at first i was pissed that they dint take the time to make a new graphics engine but they twaeked to till it was superior again. same goes for metroid prime 2 same engine but tweaked i hope mp2 has multiplayer. drool |
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| August 19, 2003, 5:18 PM CST by cmdrmonkey to lyncher | | This may sound like blasphemy, but i'm starting to think DOOM 3 isnt going to be all that great. I'm sure visually it will be an amazing game unlike anything before it, but i am convinced at this point it will be nothing more than eye candy that will be used as a system benchmark. C'mon a limit of 4 players in multiplay? Id isnt known for providing a particularly strong single play experience (its games have never been storydriven), it is known almost exclusively for producing good FPS engines and MP games. The lack of strong multiplay will probably cripple this game; that and the fact that few people will have machines powerful enough to run it with much of anything enabled. I would say Id has pushed its release date back so far partially because not many people currently have the hardware to run it...the idea of it running on a 1ghz with a Geforce 256 (the supposed min reqs) is absurd...and if an xbox version is released it will be very watered down. I'd put my money on Half-life 2 at this point. |
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| August 20, 2003, 12:07 AM CST by lyncher to cmdrmonkey | | i agree but i dont think the xbox version will be horribe ill pick it up just for the story mode. hl2 and halo2 is muliplay enough.. not.??? i think the 4 player limit will be agreat down side to doom 3 considering it has a legacy of multiplayer action behind it. |
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| August 20, 2003, 7:14 AM CST by pjbliverpool to cmdrmonkey | Why do you assume 4 player multiplay is a bad thing? Id has already said that they specifically chose this number because it better suits the environments and atmosphere of the game. Im sure that it they thought the game would be better suited to 8, 16 or 32 multiplayer, they would have implemented it but they didn't so their is obviously a good reason for it.
If Id had incorporated 32 multiplayer into Doom 3 to the detriment of the gameplay just because some people have the simplistic idea that more = better it would have been irresponsible and unimaginative. I personally am glad to have a different kind of mulitplayer experience available to me.
Besides Doom3 was never meant to be a multiplayer game. They even nearly didn't incorporate it at all so you should be glad that it has got what it has. And from what I have heard of Quakecon it seems to be a very enjoyable multiplayer experience, 4 players or not.
As for Doom 3's single player campaign, I am sure it will be very simplistic compared to some games out there but that is not nessecerily a bad thing. Not everyone want to "get to know the characters" and become "involved in a deep and facsanating story". Some people like me just want to have the shit scared out of them while they sneak around blowing demons back to hell. Im sure in this Doom 3 will be unparralelled so I expect its single player to be extremely enjoyable. |
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| August 20, 2003, 7:29 AM CST by Suckattack to pjbliverpool | I wouldn't want to play CS and BF1942 (DC) w/ only four people at a time. Even four-player split-screen play on the Xbox w/ games like Halo gets boring after awhile. It makes you want to get another Xbox just so you can play w/ more people.
I don't mean to bash Doom3 in anyway, but unless they do something about their multiplayer options, that game will be nothing more than an eye-candy technical showpiece (can you say Wreckless?). |
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| August 20, 2003, 7:46 AM CST by chairmansteve to Suckattack | 1) DOOM3 is a single player game.
2) DOOM3 multiplayer at QuakeCon 2003 was with 4 players. Does that mean the final product must limit to 4 players? Maybe the map shown at QuakeCon 2003 was designed for 4 players, and maybe other maps will be designed for larger battles?
3) A mod and/or patch can increase the player limit, if needed.
4) Just because you don't know how to have fun with action games, it doesn't mean DOOM3 will be solely an eye-candy showcase. ;)
5) Do you want every game to be the same? Same map types? Same number of players? Same weapons? It needs these "requirements" to be fun, yes? Heh.
6) At least wait for the game to come out before bashing.
I can feel another Person A + B in the works. :) |
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| August 20, 2003, 7:52 AM CST by cmdrmonkey to pjbliverpool | System Shock 2 scared the shit out of me and it had a deep and fascinating story...SS2 also had such strong single play it didnt need much in the way of multiplay...Maybe DOOM 3 will be the same way (who knows). There's nothing wrong with the fundamental premise of DOOM (ie demons coming through experimental teleporters and attacking Marines and scientists on a Mars installation)...the story just needs to be fleshed out a bit for DOOM 3.
I have my doubts about DOOM 3, but maybe Steve is right and the map at Quakecon was just a four player map (possibly chosen to allow people to easily become familiar with the game), or maybe user mods will increase the number of players, or like some people have said maybe DOOM 3 will be fundamentally different from previous Id games and be storydriven and/or focused on providing a good single play experience...too hard to say at this point. As a trend multiplay tends to get better with more people (in my opinion), unless you are playing cooperatively through the single-player game. An alternative and equally likely explanation for the 4 player multiplay limit is that few or no machines at present can handle more than four players without the game being laggy and unplayable. I dont want to bash the game too much because i really want it to be good, i am just having doubts about it after hearing about the 4 player multiplay and steep sys reqs on some sites. |
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| August 20, 2003, 8:30 AM CST by one_grim_reaper | | This is going to be one of those 'opinion' debates. Not everyone likes loadsa people everywhere. I actaully prefere 1 player games, deep/indepth games that can keep me going for hours are my preference, but even if they are not then i still prefere to play on my own. If i do play multiplayer then i dont like more than 4 people in FPS games as i feel it gets too stupid, you cant turn around wihtout being killed half the time. Games like the upcoming mario kart might be good on 8 player as even if you had it on 1 player there would be 7 other cars anyway, just they are human controlled now. If doom3 is only a 4 player, you wont hear me complaining, as chances are, i will be playing it on my own anyways. |
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| August 20, 2003, 8:36 AM CST by chairmansteve to one_grim_reaper | | Indeed, 4 players are already enough to have fun multiplayer FPS. However, that works with some map sizes. For larger maps, it's nice to have more players; otherwise, you'll be doing a lot more sightseeing than combat/interaction. |
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| August 20, 2003, 8:59 AM CST by Suckattack to one_grim_reaper | In my opinion, the reason why too much can be too much sometimes is in games like BF1942, where people can take all the vehicles, leaving you to set out on foot. LOL
Well, in any case, Doom 3 is something everyone is going to buy regardless, so it doesn't matter about the multiplay anyway. If they want to play multiplayer games, they know where else to go, ight?! |
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| August 20, 2003, 8:59 AM CST by boggyb to chairmansteve | | I like BIG games. I always join 4v4s when I see them in StarCraft and WarCraft III. They're more fun. |
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| August 20, 2003, 9:17 AM CST by pjbliverpool to Suckattack | But they are different kinds of games designed to be played differently.
I don't see D3 as a frag fest like Q3. I see it as being played in dark shadowy dungeons where you creep around slowly expecting one of the other 3 guys to jump out of the shadows at every turn. I expect it to be full of suspence not rockets blazing everywhere. |
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| August 20, 2003, 9:22 AM CST by boggyb to pjbliverpool | I think rockets blazing everywhere is more fun though. No-one wants to creep around. Buy Splinter Cell for that.
J/K :-) |
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| August 20, 2003, 9:23 AM CST by pjbliverpool to cmdrmonkey |
System Shock 2 scared the shit out of me and it had a deep and fascinating story...
Thats not the point. I don't want a game with a deep and fascinating story. I don't want to have to learn why I am in this dungeon shooting demons, I just wanna do it. I see the fact that Doom 3 will give me that opportuniy as an advantage.
Don't get me wrong though, I will also appreciate the story of HL2, its just that I sometimes just like to shoot at stuff without having to worry about following a story.
And I don't think id would limit the number of players in a the game based just on specs. If that was the case, why not have the option to add more players so that the game can scale with new technology? |
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| August 20, 2003, 9:26 AM CST by pjbliverpool to boggyb | | Im not saying that twitch gameplay isn't fun too. Im just saying that its already whats offered my practically every FPS out there. If Doom 3 offers a slowr experience, at least its something original and it could turn out to be a lot of fun. |
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| August 20, 2003, 9:34 AM CST by boggyb to pjbliverpool | Hmmm. Storyline can contribute to the feeling of fear. For example - Resident Evil 3. You found out early on that Nemesis was following you, you didn't find out why (just to kill the STARS, really) and every time you beat it it just came back. It scared the sweet bejesus out of me every time it appeared. And when you thought it was about to appear was almost as terrifying.
Same goes for all the weird pictures in Silent Hill 2. And the psycho computer in System Shock 2. |
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| August 20, 2003, 10:25 AM CST by pjbliverpool to boggyb | Yes storyline can help scare you but its not a neccesity. The original Doom had almost no story whatsoever but for its day, it was one of the scariest games ever.
Its all about atmosphere and suspence and you don't nessecerily need a story to create these things. I personally want to be scrared by Doom 3 without having to think about why I should be scared. |
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| August 20, 2003, 10:25 AM CST by one_grim_reaper to boggyb | | I prefere the creeping around kind of gameplay, and then hiding in a good sniping position and waiting for someone to come around the corner, much more fun than regenerating and then dieing over and over and over, before you even get a shot off. |
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| August 20, 2003, 10:37 AM CST by boggyb to one_grim_reaper | | I dont think so. I enjoy more action-based stealth games like MGS to 'sneak-around-dont-get-spotted-or-its-gg' games like Splinter Cell. |
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| August 20, 2003, 10:40 AM CST by Suckattack to one_grim_reaper | | You can have all the best of both worlds by playing games like BF1942 and CS! Since they don't rely on scripted events of an enemy AI to actually come around the corner, but rather, have real people do that, it makes it all that much more fun! Dey da bomb, I tell ya! |
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| August 20, 2003, 2:58 PM CST by lyncher | | Still why isnt doom 3 have like 16 player DM? if u guys preferr 4 player your guys could choose that. I like 16 player. M$ wanted doom 3 to be exclusive because they wanted more multi player options for it not just 4 player. IF the box can support 16 players thats another Q. everyone would have been happy to have a 16 player limit or something, being limited to 4 players is not a very good move by ID i sure hope that the 4 player DM is set in stone..... What ever happened to multiplayer bots?? They were cool perfect dark and Timesplitters 2 were awesome with there bots. if only halo 2 had bots. |
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| August 21, 2003, 3:10 PM CST by pjbliverpool to lyncher | Surely you are not suggesting that the xbox is capable of more players in multiplayer than the pc? That would be funny indeed!
The maps in D3 are DESIGNED for 4 players. According to everyone who has actually played the game this works very well. So why don't you just lay off the game until you have tried it for yourself?
Besides, there is a strong possibility that Doom 3 multiplayer will include monsters as well as human players. |
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| August 21, 2003, 6:44 PM CST by Jivia to boggyb |
Hmmm. Storyline can contribute to the feeling of fear. For example - Resident Evil 3. You found out early on that Nemesis was following you, you didn't find out why (just to kill the STARS, really) and every time you beat it it just came back. It scared the sweet bejesus out of me every time it appeared. And when you thought it was about to appear was almost as terrifying.
Hhmmm... you found that scary? Bah... SHODAN was friggin' creepy... but Nemesis? He was a chump I wanted to crush like any other annoying cockroach... he just wouldn't DIE!!! What I wouldn't give to smack an Ion Painter on his ass! Or maybe ram a full 8-ball o' rockets down his friggin' throat... grrrrr. That game pissed me off... oh well. |
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| August 21, 2003, 6:49 PM CST by khaid to Jivia | I made the game enjoyable by using Gameshark and started out with parts to make a custom super pistol. It worked like a super ROF shotgun. It owned everything in the game.
Needless to say, RE3 was the only RE game I beat.
BTW, lyncher, Timesplitters 2 is not cool. |
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| August 21, 2003, 7:20 PM CST by lyncher to khaid | | i thought it was of honorable mention compaired to the fpses at that time. and its use of bots made it better. If only the aiming was fixed. |
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| August 21, 2003, 7:28 PM CST by Jivia to lyncher | | Oh you on crack?! UT 2k3's bots smash TS2's bots to beanpaste! Those 2 games were released in the same time period, as well. TS2 would be one of those 'hey-it-has-weird-characters' bargain bin FPSes you see at every store if it were a PC game... |
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| August 21, 2003, 10:14 PM CST by lyncher to Jivia | | opps i forgot bout unreal sorry but i dont play pc games alot and unreal on xbox isnt the greatest. PD and TS2 were th only console games that i could think of with bots |
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| August 28, 2003, 6:13 PM CST by smillsy2004 | | Personally, I'm just waiting for Halo 2 and Half Life 2. There is absolutely no point in saying either are better than each other - as we simply don't know - but from what we've seen in Halo and Half Life before, the stories both will most likely live up to each other. Graphically, the Xbox version of Half Life WILL NOT do what the PC version does exactly , so I believe Halo 2 will look a tad better, mainly because Halo is an Xbox game from the ground up. Half Life 2 on PC has extremely brilliant graphics, and the gameplay is great (use the environment to kill things and the magnetic gun), and the physics also, but the physics can't really differ from each other that much - mainly because they all will be using a modified Ragdoll effect, so no need for concern there. Halo 2 still looks awesome, using some brill light effects and actually high res textures. The characters look equal to those in both Doom 3 and Half Life (really they do... just depends on what style you like). The level textures for Halo 2 are great also, but the structures seem less detailed. Half Life 2 will have some great graphics with the city (as I have seen) and all will be great (well, I'm not sure about Xbox, cos even Unreal 2 on that looks horrid - hell it looked horrid on PC - really!!). Games like Ut2004 are using an older less refined Engine, so bump mapping and cool lighting is out of the window, just expect great gameplay and vgreat textures and the ragdoll effect. Doom 3? Itll be good, if not exactly what it could have been if it had been released say a year ago (where it still looked as good as today in many respects for Ti4600s and Radeon 9700Pro). |
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| August 28, 2003, 7:23 PM CST by embargiel to smillsy2004 | | Unreal 2 looks horrid on PC? Well, then Halo looks like a sh8t. Anyway, even though Doom 3 would be a much better game if it had been released a year ago, it will still look the best compared to the other 2 games (Halo 2 and Half Life 2). |
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| August 28, 2003, 9:36 PM CST by lyncher to embargiel | i doubt that doom 3 has some jaggie problems (those little skull things) but it will look cool never then less. Graphically-
HALF LIFE 2
HALO 2
DOOM 3
gameplay
HALO 2
HALF LIFE 2
DOOM 3
multiplayer-
HALF LIFE 2 (mods are unfare)
HALO 2 (offline it will shine like no other,, period)
DOOM 3 (the posibility or only 4 players really troubles me) xbox version to have better multiplayer options then PC thats a great posibilty
fun factor-
HALO 2 (man i hope the glitches and warthog jumping still remain)
HALF LIFE 2 (cant go wrong with great graphics coupled with great physics)
DOOM 3 (blasting zombies can only be fun so much)
These are my oppions. Far Cry anyone,, that will be great.
what are your opions? |
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| August 28, 2003, 9:54 PM CST by embargiel to lyncher | | Xbox version to have more better multiplayer option than the PC version? You mean, it can handle more people, when a high end PC can't? Yeah, you're right. Xbox has an unlimited capability. It can trigger the DESTRUCTION OF THE WORLD. The highEST end PC out right now is not comparable! He he he, be real man. Again, IMO, Pac Man looks better than Halo 2. So what? And Doom 3 has some jaggies problem, eh? So does Halo 2 when those fancy AA effects (that you see on all of those DEV shots) have been removed from the final built of the game. |
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| August 28, 2003, 10:14 PM CST by lyncher to embargiel | | no not in a graphical sense (talking doom 3) I was reading M$ wants to add some more multi player options like CTF and more players. ect. I think having a model that is 20,000 polys is just not worth it. besides u kill it rite away. u shouldnt kill something to beatifull |
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| August 29, 2003, 4:44 AM CST by one_grim_reaper to lyncher |
Graphically-
HALF LIFE 2
HALO 2
DOOM 3
If you are talking about all 3 XBOX versions maybe, but not when DOOM3 is on the PC. You have to remember that a high end PC will be able to play this game at stupidly high resolutions and stuoidly high Frame rates with all kinds of effects turned on such as FSAA. HALO2 will not have these advantages and will because of this look a lot worse.
I have seen the HALO2 video and i didnt think it was too great. The city looked very sqaure with very little detail on the buildings. Even tho the doom3 stuff was inside and the detail can be higher this way it still looks more impressive. |
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| August 29, 2003, 12:32 PM CST by guicho80 | | Bah! I think lyncher is letting his enthusiasm for Halo 2 cloud his judgement. Im awaiting the game eagerly as well, but im not so deluded as to believe its going to hold a candle graphically to HL2 or D3. |
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| August 29, 2003, 11:51 PM CST by lyncher | | i didnt like halo 2s demo for graphics i likes the game play aspect more. I will really judge halo 2 when i see some out door eviroments. |
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| September 3, 2003, 6:36 AM CST by pjbliverpool to lyncher | | From watching the video's (many times) I would have to say that Halo 2 graphis fall a fair way short of Doom 3. |
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| September 3, 2003, 6:41 AM CST by pjbliverpool to smillsy2004 | You clearly have no clue whatsoever. Bumpmapping can't be used with the Unreal Warfare engine? Are you out of your mind? Believe me, Unreal 2 uses far more bumpmapping than either Halo or Halo 2.
Have you actually played Unreal 2? The pc version graphically better than any comparable existing xbox game! If you think it looks crap then that must say very little for the xbox's capabilities.
And by the way. You should try actually watching the video's of all three games. You will see that the character models in Doom 3 (and HL2) blow those in Halo 2 away. |
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| September 3, 2003, 8:42 AM CST by sm284614 | I think many people are forgetting that this thread is in the Xbox forum.
It's obvious that the PC versions of Doom 3 and Half-Life 2 will blow away their Xbox counterparts, but this is about the three games on the Xbox, and which will be better on the Xbox. |
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| September 3, 2003, 8:49 AM CST by PirateGuy to sm284614 | | For now, I beleive its HALO 2, because I have seen the video, where HL2 & Doom 3 have not. |
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| September 4, 2003, 9:29 AM CST by smillsy2004 to PirateGuy | | Well, you must see them, they are fricking awesome. Doom 3 reminds me a little of.... Playdo or Plastecine or somethings, but it still looks better than anything. Half Life 2 looks great too, and it is still debatable whether which one looks better. Halo 2 looks good, but its levels look a tad undetailed at the moment, which they may or may not fix. I feel the characters in the 8 min promo have been given shed loads of detail, yet the buildings and surroundings have been left a little underpolished. And that framerate..... right if that was on my PC with those graphics, I'd be shelling it out for an upgrade immediately. I expect nothing less than 60FPS at any time... not 30 FPS with a slight motion blur to cover up res probs. 60FPS 1280 res.... mmmmm DOOOOOOM 3 |
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| September 4, 2003, 9:32 AM CST by smillsy2004 to pjbliverpool | Right, there is no bumpmapping at all in Unreal 2 (although the engine supports it). Doom 3 does look better in every way to Halo 2 I agree. But what about the Xbox version. oooooo I believe there gonna cut all sorts of crap out. It aint gonna be that good when then compared to Halo 2.
THE REAL DEAL::::
Gameplay:
Half Life 2 (PC - Xbox)
Halo 2 Xbox)
Doom 3 (PC - Xbox)
Graphics:
Doom 3 (PC)
Half Llfe 2 (PC)
Doom 3 (Xbox)
Half Life 2 (Xbox)
Halo 2 (Xbox)
Coolness Overall::
Halo 2 (Master Chief vs Ginger Scientist? No contest!!!)
Doom 3 (Erm, Bad Ass Kicking Demon Butt? I dunno)
Half Life 2 (Erm, Gordon is.... Half Life is the game okay... but Gordon is the character... I guess he is well known but seriously he can't compete with those glasses and that beard... ew).
Final Fantasy VII is better than them all. |
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| September 4, 2003, 9:50 AM CST by one_grim_reaper to smillsy2004 |
Gameplay:
Half Life 2 (PC - Xbox)
Halo 2 Xbox)
Doom 3 (PC - Xbox)
This is an opinion and it seems you are trying to push it as fact. My evidence.
THE REAL DEAL::::
As you stated your opinion i will state mine, if the HALO2 gameplay is as bad as the HALO gameplay it will be at the bottom. But from what i have seen so far Neither! come close to HL2. I mean, that thing with the helicopter blade, pure class. |
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| September 4, 2003, 9:53 AM CST by pjbliverpool to smillsy2004 | No, Unreal 2 does make heavy use of bumpmapping, do some searches. Here is one to get the ball rolling
At the same time, the game is even more gorgeous than expected, with textures and bump-mapping galore. As breathtaking as Unreal Tournament 2003 was, the coding for Unreal 2's engine seems to be even better, since outdoor scenes that would grind to a slow crawl on one computer in UT 2003 were slick and fast in Unreal 2. Moreover, the foliage, water and other effects are a few notches above those of UT 2003, especially the fire and smoke effects, which are simply astounding.
http://www.ugo.com/channels/games/features/unreal2/
And that gameplay ranking is your own personal opinion, not fact or even the REAL DEAL.
The very reasons that you rank D3 at the bottom are probably the same ones that make me rank it at the top, its all personal opinion. Graphics however, or at least graphical complexity is not a matter of opinion and from what I have seen of the HL2 video's it probably goes beyond the graphics of Doom 3.
And just for the record, The ps2 has both more, and faster memory than the dreamcast by a fairly large amount. |
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| September 4, 2003, 9:56 AM CST by Jivia to pjbliverpool |
Graphics however, or at least graphical complexity is not a matter of opinion and from what I have seen of the HL2 video's it probably goes beyond the graphics of Doom 3.
No probably there... the physics and random model generators that Valve cooked up are quite good... and the facial expressions and the eyes... the EYES man!!! |
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| September 4, 2003, 10:04 AM CST by pjbliverpool to Jivia | | Yeah, HL2 also implememnts many DX9 features whereas Doom 3 is fully DX8 but the lighting system in Doom 3 is much more advanced than that in Half Life 2. |
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| September 4, 2003, 7:38 PM CST by lyncher to smillsy2004 | | You think a pc game ported to the xbox will have better graphics then an xbox exlusive. I dont think so. sorry man |
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| September 5, 2003, 4:17 AM CST by pjbliverpool to lyncher | | As long as they do a decent port it will. Afterall, the pc original looks much better than the xbox exclusive so as long as they don't cut it down too much to fit in with the xbox's limitations it should be ok. |
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| September 5, 2003, 1:05 PM CST by knowitall | x-box 733 mhz p3, geforce with 2 shaders and 64 meg unified memory
pc- 3.06 p4, 256 meg geforce fx 5900 ultra and anythin up to 2 gig of ram.
pc levels x-box than makes a nice a buliding on top of it.
nuff sed !!! |
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| September 5, 2003, 9:24 PM CST by lyncher to pjbliverpool | NO those pc versions only look better because they are built on higher end PCs with better graphics cards. You know what i mean. Your saying that a game that is untapping every drop of the xbox. is not gonna look the same a port from a PC that has higher specs. well duh, but the transition from pc to Xbox will be very noticable. Cuts will be made in areas which if the developers wanted to could avaoid those barriors but seeing as no one will port games desent these days wont happen. HL2 will look good on the box but no where near halo 2. HL2 wasnt built to maximze the power of the box while halo 2 was. My be fan boyism but i think your wanting the Hl2 For PC to be the same as the box version. Box cant do that. If you still think that HL2 will look better the halo 2(both on xbox) then your letting your love of HL2 cloud your judgement.
hey maybe HL2(box) will look better then halo 2, we just dont know, but what ever the xbox dudes say that the box can handle HL2 with out slowdown or down grading is a crock of s**t im not stupid and hope you aint. |
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| September 5, 2003, 10:09 PM CST by CriTioN to lyncher | Did you read the article that was posted awhile back?
http://forum.pcvsconsole.com/viewthread.php?tid=5841
It's no longer there, but it was talking about how the HL2 engine works. One part talked about the level of detail (page 4 in article). The engine can scale down objects off in the distance to give more detail up close. I haven't heard Halo 2 doing that, have you? |
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| September 6, 2003, 10:33 AM CST by ImMoRTaL to CriTioN | | Many game engines can do a form of that, maybe the LOD in HL2 is more advanced, can see less of a change from high detail to low detail? |
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| September 6, 2003, 10:47 AM CST by boggyb | | Valve have written specific algorithms for the way light falls on character's teeth. Now THATS an attention to detail. |
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| September 6, 2003, 11:22 AM CST by lyncher to CriTioN | | will they do that on the box version also? when that happen ill come back and say that the back drops in HL2 on xbox so either way it wouls lose HL2 will/should look good but not as good as halo 2 |
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| September 6, 2003, 12:57 PM CST by boggyb to lyncher | | Half-Life 2 looks much, much better than Halo 2, I think. |
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| September 6, 2003, 1:11 PM CST by lyncher to boggyb | | the xbox version of HL2 wont look as good as halo 2 if you have been paying attention this tread was built to compare the Xbox versions not pc |
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| September 6, 2003, 1:17 PM CST by boggyb to lyncher | | AH, sorry. No, I don't think that the XBox version of HL2 will look as good, because its a port and people never take time with ports. |
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| September 6, 2003, 4:06 PM CST by CriTioN to lyncher | Eh, I miss read the Level of Detail part. Here's what it says...
Getting a bleeding-edge DirectX 9 game running on hardware that's more than four years old is no minor feat. The secret is to ensure that every object in the game can be scaled down to lower levels of detail. The cranes in the background of this shot are models-just like the buildings and ships-but because they're far off in the distance, the engine draws only a few polygons to represent them. As you approach the docks, the cranes' level of detail ramps up, without any change noticeable to the player. If you run the game on older 3D cards, however, the engine just draws models in one of the lower details settings all the time.
Maybe I should just read this thread instead posting in it. ;) |
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| September 6, 2003, 5:21 PM CST by lyncher to CriTioN | | i thought thats how all games did it. seems pointless to have an object rendered with 1000 polys in the distance when u cant see it anyway. |
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| September 8, 2003, 8:30 AM CST by pjbliverpool to lyncher | Are you actually calling me an xbox fanboy? Funny considering I don't own one. I know that the xbox won't be able to handle HL2 or Doom 3 even as well as a midrange gaming pc but I also know that Doom 3 on xbox will look very similar to the pc version at 640x480 (unless you think that every statement from Id and Carmack himself regarding the port has been a lie).
Since Doom 3 appears to destroy Halo 2 in the low res video's I have seen, it seems to make sense that the xbox version of Doom 3 will also look better than Halo2. And although I know that they are reducing the graphical detail of HL2 to fit on the xbox, it is so far beyond halo 2 in terms of graphics that they will have to completely bleem it up if its going to look worse than Halo 2 on the xbox. |
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| September 8, 2003, 4:38 PM CST by lyncher to pjbliverpool | | im not saying your a fanboy im saying that the xbxo isnt string enough to handle HL2 in the same sense that pc can therefore im concluding that its new imposible that hl@ will look better then halo 2 on xbxo seeing as the difference in graphics is minimal that way it is. it may be the halo 2's graphics are better then HL2 on xbox but it might not be by a huge margne. Its nice to look at past ports and compair the results and conclude that HL2 and d3 may be the same(sloopy ports with bad graphics) but then these are acctually good games so it should be a good port. |
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| September 9, 2003, 5:39 AM CST by pjbliverpool to lyncher |
im not saying your a fanboy im saying that the xbxo isnt string enough to handle HL2 in the same sense that pc can therefore im concluding that its new imposible that hl@ will look better then halo 2 on xbxo seeing as the difference in graphics is minimal that way it is
First, I agree with your point that the xbox cannot handle HL2 the way that the pc can.
Second, their is no logical basis for you to conclude that Halo 2 will therfore look better than the xbox version of HL2, its still just an assumption.
Third, I think you should take another look at the video's. The differences between Halo 2 on xbox and HL2 on the PC are not minimal, they are huge! I admit that Halo 2 is an incredible looking game but HL2 is just out of this world! If Halo 2 is going to look better than the xbox version on HL2, I think that the xbox version will have to look like utter crap when compared to its pc counterpart. Personally this wouldn't bother me one bit but I just don't see the differences between the versions being that big (based on what I have read about how the game engine scales). |
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| September 9, 2003, 8:09 PM CST by embargiel to pjbliverpool |
If Halo 2 is going to look better than the xbox version on HL2, I think that the xbox version will have to look like utter crap when compared to its pc counterpart.
LOL! Don't you think that it MAY be the case. |
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| September 10, 2003, 11:06 AM CST by smillsy2004 to pjbliverpool | Xbox will have very weak versions of Doom 3 and Half Life 2. I have come to a conclusion that the very power inside the Xbox is just not capable of what the PC will be able to do (let's say a top spec one). It isn't even possible for an Xbox to have 640*480 res and still get a decent frame rate. It is obvious that a hell of a lot of things will have to be cut down. These things will be noticed when side by side. And when they are released - this post will MOST LIKELY remain true.
Poor port? It's not a question of time or quality in this situation - that only works for say an Xbox or PS2 game ported to PC. In this instance, a PC game is being ported to a lesser system, and there for it can never be as high in quality visually - however - as many of you are so willing that graphics are not important, while others feel gameplay is opinionised, then it can only be seen that these games might as well be bought for the Xbox only if you don't have a PC capable of pushing Doom 3 or HL2 satisfactorily. While many Xbox owners no doubt will buy Halo 2, PC gamers will be hard pushed to by an xbox simply to play it.
PJ, from what I have read, Half Life 2 scales well on a PC, and its minimum spec is apparently a Geforce 1 (yet we both know this is not a visual treat - nor is it the appearance that will be applied to an Xbox obvioulsy). The Xbox scales somewhere between Geforce 3 and 4 (closer to 3) and yet is a more optimised game system simply because it has only one GPU (yes...obviously). However, Half Life 2 will not look nice on a Geforce 3, and will barely cut the mustard on a Geforce 4 - this is just speculation from reading many previews and PC GPU specs (it isn't an opinion - :) just collation of many different views). Apparently even a Radeon 9800 Pro and FX 5900 won't offer the very ends of peak performance when maxed out. So, the Xbox is sitting in a slightly dodgy position when considering visuals. The gameplay probably will remain , there really shouldnt be limitation there.
EDIT::: I have come to a conclusion once again... I am wrong... |
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| September 11, 2003, 5:20 AM CST by embargiel to smillsy2004 |
However, Half Life 2 will not look nice on a Geforce 3, and will barely cut the mustard on a Geforce 4 - this is just speculation from reading many previews and PC GPU specs (it isn't an opinion - :) just collation of many different views).
SOrry if I do missunderstand you, but do you imply that Half Life 2 played on GF3/4 won't look as good as Halo 2? I don't really think so. I reckon that it will still look better on DX8 based GPUs than what Halo 2 does on Xbox. The difference between the DX8 and DX9 built of Half LIfe 2 lies on the amount of refraction, the radiocity bump mapping on NPC and the softshadowing. The bump-mapping, texture resolution and diversity, Static Props, sky and volumetric effects are all the same between the two builds. We can assume that Half Life 2 being played on GF3/4 won't look much different that it does on DX9 hardware. This game is not STALKER.
http://planetdescent.com/lyris/hl2_mpc.html |
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| September 11, 2003, 8:40 AM CST by pjbliverpool to smillsy2004 | | I agree with what you saying about the xbox being weaker than the pc but Im pretty certain that Halflife 2 will look just fine on a GF3 as well as a geforce 4. It just wont look as good as it would on a DX9 card. |
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| September 11, 2003, 8:59 PM CST by embargiel | Woooooowwww! I pull back my words about Half Life 2 not looking much different between its DX8 and DX9 built. Valve has just released a trailer showing some new DX9 effects being implemented in Half Life 2. They do look better than the trailer shown on E3 2003. It also seems that the built that was shown on E3 was only a DX8 built!!! God, does this game look awesome or what? This surely looks better than Halo 2. At least technically.
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/halflife2/screenindex.html
http://gamershell.com/news_BHalf-Life2BDirectx9.0Ef.shtml |
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| September 12, 2003, 5:21 AM CST by pjbliverpool to embargiel | | E3 was only DX8!? Holy crap! |
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| September 12, 2003, 5:30 AM CST by embargiel to pjbliverpool | | I'm not really sure about that, but one thing that I know for sure is that in this new video, they seem to have implemented some new DX9 features that are not included in the E3 trailer (like diffuse & reflective bump-mapping, as opposed to the only reflective on DX8). Even if they did use DX9 in E3, I reckon that the difference between the DX8 built and the E3 trailer won't be so vast (but yeah, the difference between the real DX9 built and DX8 built is noticeable). |
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| September 12, 2003, 2:28 PM CST by smillsy2004 to pjbliverpool | | Hmmm, could be so, about the Geforce thing. But no, Halo 2 itself looks nice, but on second third and fourth views of the 8 minute E3 vid, it is looking underdetailed environment wise. There going the right way about the characters, but it will be a lot less of a visual masterpiece than Half Life 2 - even on Xbox. Now Half Life 2 on PS2? It is apparently happening... if this happens and gets pulled off at even 80 percent of what we see today, those naysayers who only go on aboot the weakness of PS2 (namely me...haha) are gonna have such a virtual bitch slap from those who defend causes for the PS2. |
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| September 12, 2003, 9:56 PM CST by lyncher | | ok so HL2 looks noticably better then halo 2 now, hopefully the gameplay can be as good as the graphics, then maybe HL2 will be on par with Halo PC..(cough) |
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| September 12, 2003, 10:20 PM CST by CriTioN to pjbliverpool | Huh? The developer talking in the E3 movies kept saying stuff like...
if you look here you can see... ...DirectX 9 allows this to happen.
He also talked about certain effects that you'd only see on ATI 9800 Pro. Which site said it used DX 8/8.1? |
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| September 13, 2003, 4:40 AM CST by pjbliverpool to CriTioN | | Yeah, now that I think about it your right there, oh well it still looks out of this world. |
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| September 13, 2003, 4:44 AM CST by pjbliverpool | I can't believe how good looking this game is! After seeing the new video I now firmly believe that Half Life 2 stomps all over Doom 3's graphics which iself looks a fair bit better than Halo 2 (not to say Halo 2 looks bad, its still an amazing looking game).
The way the spider things skin shines and reflects the light, Im amazed that even the latest GPU's are capable of such graphics! This is better than any tech demo I have ever seen, I am so tempted to buy a new GPU just for this.... |
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| September 13, 2003, 5:12 AM CST by pjbliverpool to CriTioN | Actually it turns out that the E3 demo's where lacking some important DX9 features that will be in the final game and that are shown in the new video:
The benchmark was based on older levels, like Valve's E3 demo levels, which lack high-dynamic-range (HDR) lighting and other new DirectX 9-based effects that will find their way into the final game or into updates via Valve's Steam content distribution system not long after the game's release
http://techreport.com/etc/2003q3/hl2bench/index.x?pg=1
It just gets better and better! |
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| September 13, 2003, 5:45 AM CST by boggyb | There's an article about the HL2 benchmark at Gamespot. Makes for some interesting reading, and has a very good comparative screenshot for DirectX8.1 and DirectX9 shader techs.
Our numbers show that the ATI cards run much faster than their Nvidia counterparts under both DirectX 9 and DirectX 8.1.
Until Det50 comes out, it looks like you're better off with an ATI card.
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/halflife2/news_6075080.html |
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| September 13, 2003, 8:43 AM CST by smillsy2004 | | EVERYBODY - Buy at LEAST a Radeon 9800 - otherwise you shall NOT see Half Life the way it will finally be intended. Your all lying to yourselves if you believe even a Geforce 4 will do the game justice. See those effects? Geforce 4 just exploded!!! AAAAHHH... Mind you, an R360 will do the trick at its best, but I'm not geting one - I'll wait for the second generation from now - maybe next year mid term. |
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| September 13, 2003, 8:58 AM CST by PirateGuy | Im thinking of replacing my GeForce 4 Ti4200 128 RAM with a Radeon 9600.
Does R9600 support DX9 (full detail)? Is it faster than my 4200? |
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| September 13, 2003, 9:18 AM CST by embargiel to smillsy2004 | "Your all lying to yourselves if you believe even a Geforce 4 will do the game justice. See those effects? Geforce 4 just exploded!!! "
On GF4, it will look almost similar with what we've seen on E3 trailer.I know, it's not even close to its full fidelity. You're right, you shall get at least a DX9 based GPU to play this game the way it should have been played. |
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| September 13, 2003, 9:21 AM CST by pjbliverpool to PirateGuy | Yes it supports full detail and in HL2 it is quite a bit faster than your Ti4200.
However in other games without FSAA and AF there is very little difference in overall speed.
Im gonna upgrade my Ti4200 but I wouldn;'t go any lower than a 9800non pro (Im seriously considering the 9800XT). |
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| September 13, 2003, 9:24 AM CST by pjbliverpool to smillsy2004 | A Geforce 4 is the reccomended spec for this game.
Sure it will look better on a fast DX9 card, but it will still look amazing on a GF4 and at 1024x768 even a Ti4200 will be able to pull of playable framerates. |
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| September 13, 2003, 9:30 AM CST by embargiel |
Xboxs nv25 pixel and vertex shaders are far better then the shaders on any DX 8.1 based hardware and are right around the same levels as DX 9 hardware. They can even do things that DX 9 hardware can't do. To say it wont look any where near as good is just ignorant. If Vavle does things right it could easly look as good.
http://forum.teamxbox.com/showthread.php?s=c26d61f1027fbfdfe65ca1eaa24fb89d&threadid=216730&perpage=15&pagenumber=2
Yeah! It's confirmed. Xbox version of Half Life 2 should have looked at least as good as the PC version. If it doesn't, don't blame the box, blame Valve for not exploting the Xbox's unlimitted untapped potential. And we can surely believe this guy, he's so knowledgable in this area. He knows his stuff man! |
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| September 13, 2003, 10:37 AM CST by pjbliverpool to embargiel | OMG, its a super fanboy! I read the rest of his posts too, what a load of rubbish.
The funny thing is that I think he is serious! |
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| September 13, 2003, 10:55 AM CST by embargiel to pjbliverpool | | Do you remember about a post that I posted earlier in this thread? on how is Halo 2's lighting being superior than that of Doom 3's? LOL to how stupid I was being that time, it was his post! |
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